England vs Argentina - Weds 15th July - 20.00 (BST)

[JonnyZeroFox]

4 minutes ago, AyewJoking said:

our win in 66 doesnt really count anymore. its a different sport now.

 

 

It counts, just as much as Italy in 34, 38 and Uruguay winning twice 

Edited Thursday at 01:01 by JonnyZeroFox

[accessory]

43 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

I don’t agree with it, it’s bad form.

 

But it does highlight how patriotic they are. It’s an advantage in international football. Look at how Croatia punch above their weight as well. How the Germans always had that winning culture through different generations. The Italians too at one point. Brazil are ashamed to score less than 3 goals in a match.

 

All these countries go through bad eras where they don’t produce players but when they do, the players realise the importance of playing for their specific country and becoming immortal. John Stones was asked about the match and he’s just reeling off generic statements with no emotion. You can bet the Argentine players acknowledged the importance of the match in their interviews. That they grew up watching clips of Maradona, that they appreciate the rivalry, etc. They knew this was about pride and glory.

 

English people aren’t patriotic and I get the feeling the World Cup is no different to the Champions League for the players. They want to win trophies, of course they do, but they don’t see the England shirt as this glorious thing that they are proud of and will treat like life and death.

 

It’s so easy for Argentines to mix politics and sport because it’s the same thing to them. England would like to win, and have the potential to, but the determination isn’t on the same level.
 

Some might disagree but mentality plays a huge part and over the years I’ve noticed England players feeling pressure and dread but rarely talking about the great England World Cup games they watched growing up or something like that. They aren’t even football fans in the traditional sense.

Assume you've been drowning your sorrows tonight as a lot of what you've written here makes no sense at all.

 

Croatia are a team in decline whom England beat quite comfortably, Germany were knocked out by Paraguay and Brazil by Norway.  As for Italy, they didn't even make it to the World Cup for the THIRD time in a row.  So unfavourable comparisons with any of those countries is nonsense.

 

While there are a lot of mercenary instincts in the England squad - as there have been since the days of Shearer, etc, to be honest - doubt their patriotic fervour as a group is any less that of the Basques and Catalonians that make up most of the present Spain line-up.

 

It's also easy to forget Argentina themselves, even during the Messi era, endured a long and painful series of tournament failures, including successive defeats to Chile on penalties in Copa America finals. Somehow, in 2021, they finally managed to overcome that hoodoo and haven't looked back since.

 

Messi and co are a battle hardened squad in a way that England aren't.

 

Can't see a coach emerging any time soon that will build a winning mentality within the current England squad. Like many before him, Tuchel has proved to be a triumph of hype over substance.

[whoareyaaa]

Can’t get sleep what a pathetic manger 

[accessory]

17 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

Yeah in 2018 when the team we had wasn’t of this quality… I think people are just accepting English players are shit… Kane, Bellingham, Gordon, rice, Guehi… Southgate didn’t have. Croatia were better than us then, Argentina aren’t.. you can laugh and say well they outclassed us. But they really don’t have the talent we have.. I mean we left foden, palmer, Trent.. and gibbs white at home.. 

Arguably Harry Maguire was the biggest miss of all. Think he'd have contributed more than Stones or Burn did..

[whoareyaaa]

He could have used Mainoo Rashford and Watkins all this team shit 2 didn’t even get a minute 

[Dan]

1 hour ago, FrankieADZ said:

yeah great, cant wait for england to failure again in the euros 

I just don't understand this at this point. "Full backing" after that?

 

I've been behind Tuchel, no regrets about that either, but he has massively let us down in an enormous game. I don't know how it can be that set in stone.

 

What a disappointment.

[AyewJoking]

39 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

It counts, just as much as Italy in 34, 38 and Uruguay winning twice 

they shouldnt count either

[STUHILL]

12 minutes ago, AyewJoking said:

they shouldnt count either

this is just dumb. 

 

all World Cup winners count. End of. 

[Pliskin]

It was a complete tactical **** up for me. Ultra defensive for 20 minutes with absolutely no outlet on the pitch at all? It’s just basic football tactics, if you gift a team as good as Argentina the ball constantly for 20 odd minutes with no reprieve, you’ll concede. It was utterly suicidal from Tuchel. 
 

England always recruit the wrong managers, they should have won a major tournament in the last 10-20 years, but time after time, poor managers are recruited and create a spineless, characterless group of players who fold like a deckchair when it matters.

 

The biggest scandal for this England team is not even managing to beat the worst Italian team in modern history….. 

 

If England are to ever win a major tournament again, the FA need to have a complete overhaul, and a completely different approach. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

With how many games these players have to play for club and country you can't afford to waste a single squad space now. As the tournament went on it was clear some of the players were either completely knackered (Kane and Rice) and/or not 100% fit (Rice again, Saka, James). Tuchel clearly didn't trust the likes of Watkins, Toney and Mainoo to do a job for him even for 15-20 minutes and this needs to be addressed.

[KingsX]

“In the 31 minutes between Anthony Gordon’s opener and Enzo Fernandez’s sensational equalizer, England saw just 12 percent of the ball. They took only nine touches in the attacking third, 165 fewer than their opponents.”

 

 hard to believe unless you watched the match!

[Jon the Hat]

The only positives I can take from this tactical cluster**** is that Argentina did have to work for it, and they didn’t resort to cheating.  They fully deserve their place in the final.  
although I’d take anyone who touched their Malvinas banner being banned for it..

[Sly]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

“In the 31 minutes between Anthony Gordon’s opener and Enzo Fernandez’s sensational equalizer, England saw just 12 percent of the ball. They took only nine touches in the attacking third, 165 fewer than their opponents.”

 

 hard to believe unless you watched the match!

I read this stat a moment ago and it blew my mind. 
 

It just highlights the capitulation! 

[LCFCJohn]

As per everyone else, we were pathetic from an hour onwards and it was obvious what was going to happen. The equaliser, how many times had Messi done that short corner? We had the box crowded while they had the freedom to do what they wanted on the edge and it cost us. Once they equalised, it was obvious it wasn’t even going to extra time. It reminded me a bit of our FA cup final win had VAR not intervened. Rodgers had gone entirely defensive, had the goal stood, we were done as we had no threat left.
 

As for Argentina. They are a f***ing disgrace. They were enabled by a pathetic ref who lost control from the first minute. Why again are we letting a ref from the USA take charge of important games? They don’t understand football!

 

And given how much they apparently hate us, I assume both Emiliano and Lisandro Martinez, Enzo Fernandez, Cristian Romero and Alexis MacAllister will piss off and stop earning their living off our clubs over here. No? Thought not. Hopefully they all get what’s coming to them over the coming season.

[FoxesWalk]

From the moment we scored the players became very negative and conceded lots of chances to Argentina and couldn’t find a way out. There were 20 minutes until Tuchel made his first change to try and sure it up at the back… and I’m pretty sure Konza was on purely to free up the full backs to press wider as Argentina had suddenly started to play with a lot of width. 

 

It’s felt very similar to the players under Southgate. I’m inclined to think our players have a mentality problem defending leads against good sides. I don’t think it’s all on Tuchel. 

Edited Thursday at 06:07 by FoxesWalk

[Bert]

If going out in avoidable circumstances wasn’t enough, spare a thought for everyone in work today having to listen to everyone else’s take on it all. 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

 

As for Argentina. They are a f***ing disgrace. They were enabled by a pathetic ref who lost control from the first minute. Why again are we letting a ref from the USA take charge of important games? They don’t understand football!

referee didn't really do anything wrong? Like yes, Argentina did what top teams do, disrupted any rhythm by making the game very bitty with constant fouling, but they did it the way top teams do, rotating the foulers. It's an aspect of football I hate, very cynical and makes games rough to watch, but there's not much the ref can do about that - not like rugby where the captain can take punishment if his players misbehave, a ref can't start booking non yellow card worthy fouls just because the players teammates are making the same fouls 

[LCFCJohn]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

referee didn't really do anything wrong? Like yes, Argentina did what top teams do, disrupted any rhythm by making the game very bitty with constant fouling, but they did it the way top teams do, rotating the foulers. It's an aspect of football I hate, very cynical and makes games rough to watch, but there's not much the ref can do about that - not like rugby where the captain can take punishment if his players misbehave, a ref can't start booking non yellow card worthy fouls just because the players teammates are making the same fouls 

He didn’t make any big calls, pens, red cards etc. But as I said, he has no control over the game. They were at it from the first minute and he had no authority over the game at all. 
 

Edit - what they can do is book for accumulation of fouls even if each individual one by a particular player doesn’t seem individually worth it.

Edited Thursday at 06:17 by LCFCJohn

[Trumpet]

3 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

referee didn't really do anything wrong? Like yes, Argentina did what top teams do, disrupted any rhythm by making the game very bitty with constant fouling, but they did it the way top teams do, rotating the foulers. It's an aspect of football I hate, very cynical and makes games rough to watch, but there's not much the ref can do about that - not like rugby where the captain can take punishment if his players misbehave, a ref can't start booking non yellow card worthy fouls just because the players teammates are making the same fouls 

I think Simeone should’ve been in the book a long time before Anderson was. In fact there were a few that should’ve been with him. Not booking them allowed them to keep going with the ****ery.

[fox_favourite]

If we won that game, Spain would have destroyed us in the final. We looked knackered, drained and out of ideas. This is on Tuchel. 

 

Mexico and Norway games had taken too much effort in extreme circumstances. Kane and Bellingham were done. 

 

As for Argentina's pathetic celebrations after the game with the Falklands banner, they should be heavily punished for that. Disgraceful behaviour, but FIFA's golden child won't let anything happen to baby face. 

 

To end, I hope an English player goes in hard of Enzo at the beginning of the season. 

Edited Thursday at 06:27 by fox_favourite

[CruzNoir]

It was a disaster tactically, that can’t be understated 

 

the baffling nature of the disaster is that it was orchestrated by a manager that actually has pedigree

 

Tuchel has messed this up big time, the reason he was brought in, to do what Gareth couldn’t do in these moments, and he messed it up 

 

I’m not however calling for him to be sacked 

 

We’ve had managerial winners in the past represent us etc Sven, Capello bla bla bla 

 

But Gareth galvanised us, re-engaged this team and the fans and did a great job for man that isn’t a winner, so off the back of the work he did it was time for that winner to come in and get us across the line, step up Mr Tuchel

 

Tuchel messed up big time, but what I don’t think Tuchel will do, like Gareth, is repeat the mistakes, Gareth time and time again just could not get it right because he hasn’t that winning nouse in those absolutely crucial moments, Tuchel regardless to last nights massive mistakes does and I genuinely believe he will not allow for these mistakes again 

 

who else out there is there?? 

Edited Thursday at 06:33 by CruzNoir

[Blarmy]

It’s a weird feeling, knowing you are going to lose at 1-0 up.

[Super_horns]

Biggest test for him and really  messed it up.

 

Probably will stay unless he wants to go but be a mark against Tuchel’s name now till the Euros .

[HP1]

5 hours ago, accessory said:

Assume you've been drowning your sorrows tonight as a lot of what you've written here makes no sense at all.

 

Croatia are a team in decline whom England beat quite comfortably, Germany were knocked out by Paraguay and Brazil by Norway.  As for Italy, they didn't even make it to the World Cup for the THIRD time in a row.  So unfavourable comparisons with any of those countries is nonsense.

 

While there are a lot of mercenary instincts in the England squad - as there have been since the days of Shearer, etc, to be honest - doubt their patriotic fervour as a group is any less that of the Basques and Catalonians that make up most of the present Spain line-up.

 

It's also easy to forget Argentina themselves, even during the Messi era, endured a long and painful series of tournament failures, including successive defeats to Chile on penalties in Copa America finals. Somehow, in 2021, they finally managed to overcome that hoodoo and haven't looked back since.

 

Messi and co are a battle hardened squad in a way that England aren't.

 

Can't see a coach emerging any time soon that will build a winning mentality within the current England squad. Like many before him, Tuchel has proved to be a triumph of hype over substance.

The difference is with practically all the nations you mentioned - they all won tournaments and we never do

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

12 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

It’s a weird feeling, knowing you are going to lose at 1-0 up.

Not weird for me. I'm a Leicester fan.