The VAR thread

[Gav_LCFC14]

I feel like this is the world naturally balancing out all of the crap calls that went against us last season, but we got away with this one luckily. Didn't even notice it in game. (Amartey handball inside the box) 

 

Edited 29 December 2020 by Gav_LCFC14

[Lambert09]

It’s crazy how if you don’t shout loud enough these things don’t get checked. I felt a few times last season our players didn’t push hard enough. The Brighton and villa ones stick out the most. 
 

Benteke actually didn’t see it and neither did any other players, so there wasn’t the uproar that got var to take a look. 
 

Tbf I didn’t notice it and it sounds like very few did, so without the claims I can see how it was missed 

[Aus Fox]

That’s a stinky today, luckily it hasn’t hurt us. But the more I see the Dunk tackle on Vardy the more obvious a penalty is.

It’s  not even debatable it’s as clear as they come!

[CrispinLA in Texas]

Both Heskey and Townsend on the Panel here both saying it's a Penalty, the Brighton uses his arm on Vardy's leg

Edited 6 March 2021 by CrispinLA in Texas

[Mickyblueeyes]

How does this “clear and obvious” error thing work. Bit simple but to me it’s either a foul or it’s not. I don’t get how something can be questionable from something that is either a yes or no answer.

[KrefelderFox666]

The main issue I have is why did Oliver not look at the screen himself?

 

Anyway, worked out OK in the end!

[Spudulike]

Not sure which angle the VAR ref was looking at (probably the one that Sky kept replaying that was inconclusive) but the view from other side shows a clear kick on Vardy's shin. It was a penalty. 

[shade]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Not sure which angle the VAR ref was looking at (probably the one that Sky kept replaying that was inconclusive) but the view from other side shows a clear kick on Vardy's shin. It was a penalty. 

yep, I thought the same, one angle obvious, the other inconclusive 

[dayday]

Neither MOTD or the Sky pundits looked at it after the game, surprising really as it was a stonewall penalty 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

It showed the fundamental flaw with VAR: that the referee on the pitch is seen as ultimate authority and can only be overruled if he’s made a clear and obvious error.

 

You can look at that incident and say “Dunk’s clipped the ball with the barest of contacts so we won’t give the penalty as it’s not an obvious error” but no one can convince me that Oliver on the pitch saw this minutest of touches and didn’t actually think he’d seen Dunk win the ball cleanly.

 

There is therefore an obvious error: Oliver thinks Dunk has made a fair tackle and won the ball clean but the replays showed he hadn’t. The man in the van is then in a situation where he sees something in the replay that he can use to justify the decision of the on field referee, even if that’s not what the on field referee originally saw.

 

The whole premise of VAR currently is set up to first and foremost vindicate the on field referee rather than saying “refs on the field are disadvantaged by poor

views and/or poor ability, so let’s actually just tell them what they should give outright based on what we see with 20 camera angles”.

 

I can’t imagine there would be many fans that would complain if it were binned tomorrow. I certainly wouldn’t be one now. It’s an absolute mess.

[st albans fox]

I’m not one for conspiracy theories at all - I hate them infact .....but I can’t help thinking that Man U would have got a pen there either by the ref or the var. 

 

so the big clubs will still get the most big decisions ........especially when fans return ........

[Aus Fox]

5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m not one for conspiracy theories at all - I hate them infact .....but I can’t help thinking that Man U would have got a pen there either by the ref or the var. 

 

so the big clubs will still get the most big decisions ........especially when fans return ........

No question in mind that in exactly the same incident Man City, Man Utd and Liverpool all get a penalty.

[ian__marshall]

Probably going against the grain here, but I didn't think it was a pen. Yes Dunk clearly takes out Vardy, but this was after he's played the ball. I thought JV went looking for the contact and whilst I appreciate that the laws don't take into consideration situational context I'm not convinced Vardy was in a particularly threatening position had the challenge not come in. I think he realised this and was waiting to see if he could entice Dunk into making contact. 

[jammie82uk]

5 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Probably going against the grain here, but I didn't think it was a pen. Yes Dunk clearly takes out Vardy, but this was after he's played the ball. I thought JV went looking for the contact and whilst I appreciate that the laws don't take into consideration situational context I'm not convinced Vardy was in a particularly threatening position had the challenge not come in. I think he realised this and was waiting to see if he could entice Dunk into making contact. 

Dunk didn’t play the ball did he, I was pretty certain Vardy got the touch just before the collision 

[BoyJones]

Dunk clearly takes out Vardy before then getting a touch on the ball. A blatant foul. Ref should have gone to pitch side screen.
 

VAR seems to be changing their rules during the season, because the Vardy challenge would have been a pen earlier in the season as would the handball in the Burnley Arsenal game, which was as clear hand to ball as you could wish to see. 

[Ian Nacho]

Just now, BoyJones said:

Dunk clearly takes out Vardy before then getting a touch on the ball. A blatant foul. Ref should have gone to pitch side screen.
 

VAR seems to be changing their rules during the season, because the Vardy challenge would have been a pen earlier in the season as would the handball in the Burnley Arsenal game, which was as clear hand to ball as you could wish to see. 

Agreed. Thought it was a stonewall pen at the time. 

[deanolegend1989]

8 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Probably going against the grain here, but I didn't think it was a pen. Yes Dunk clearly takes out Vardy, but this was after he's played the ball. I thought JV went looking for the contact and whilst I appreciate that the laws don't take into consideration situational context I'm not convinced Vardy was in a particularly threatening position had the challenge not come in. I think he realised this and was waiting to see if he could entice Dunk into making contact. 

The worst post I’ve ever read lol. Vardy wasn’t in a threatening position?

So Fofanas at Spurs this season shouldn’t of been given as well?

Its a stonewall penalty, Vardys left foot knocks ball away and Dunk cleans him out. Watch Man Utd’s penalty’s this season and see the difference. I hate believing that we everyone’s against us, but it’s quite clear they don’t want us to be in the CL if possible.

No doubt in my mind if that’s A big 6 team in a big game, there is absolutely NO CHANCE that’s not given.

 

Does anyone truly believe that if Soyuncu did that on Rashford at 1-1 in the 86th minute at the Stratford end that it wouldn’t be given?

[5waller5]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

How does this “clear and obvious” error thing work. Bit simple but to me it’s either a foul or it’s not. I don’t get how something can be questionable from something that is either a yes or no answer.

It’s very simple.

 

If it’s clear and obviously a Man U, Man City, or Liverpool player then give the penalty.

 

Otherwise, don’t. 

[1972 Fox]

Never a penalty IMO. We would have been livid if it had been given against us.

 

The problem with these decisions is the inconsistency. Sometimes they are given, sometimes not.

[shade]

27 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

Never a penalty IMO. We would have been livid if it had been given against us.

 

The problem with these decisions is the inconsistency. Sometimes they are given, sometimes not.

did you see the angle with them running towards the camera? someone post it please?

[LCFCCHRIS]

Definitely more of a pen then 85% of the others given this season 

[Deeg67]

47 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

Never a penalty IMO. We would have been livid if it had been given against us.

 

The problem with these decisions is the inconsistency. Sometimes they are given, sometimes not.

Fans do take this persecution complex too far.  It was borderline, and the fact that it wasn't given isn't evidence of conspiracy, it's just bad luck.

[Tom12345]

12 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

Probably going against the grain here, but I didn't think it was a pen. Yes Dunk clearly takes out Vardy, but this was after he's played the ball. I thought JV went looking for the contact and whilst I appreciate that the laws don't take into consideration situational context I'm not convinced Vardy was in a particularly threatening position had the challenge not come in. I think he realised this and was waiting to see if he could entice Dunk into making contact. 

No ... if you watch the replay from behind the line, Dunk hit Vardy’s leg FIRST as he attempted to get the ball. Dunk missed the ball entirely. Vardy then jumped up slightly to avoid the follow through and in that one movement he then hit Dunk’s trailing legs. It is probably that movement that led you to think that Vardy was looking for contact - and what the TV replays kept showing later (really query why they did not show the first angle again - almost like it was deliberate). He may well have after realising his opportunity to get the ball was gone (literally this all happened within a fraction of a second) but he did that probably because in his mind he should have gone down the first time instead of attempting to jump over Dunk and so he tried to engineer the second contact. But the first contact was the key - Dunk hit Vardy and not the ball and as a result the opportunity was lost. Btw it does not matter whether he was in a “threatening position”. Penalties have been given near edge of the box with players running sideways or backwards (like the one we got against Tottenham). This is a clear penalty. The live commentary I watched the game with said as such with replays and it was baffling why it was not given.

Edited 7 March 2021 by Tom12345

[coolhandfox]

The on field ref gives it then VAR doesn't over turn it.

 

VAR is about dealing with stinkers, to me even after multiple replays you can't be 100%.

 

So sticking with the on field ref was the correct call in my view.

[Hammo]

My thought at the time - and after viewing the replay - was that it was a borderline call, certainly not a ‘stonewall’ penalty.

 

BUT I do agree that if Vardy had been Salah, Rashford or Sterling - or any player from the Big Six - then Oliver would have ( because of subconscious media-fuelled bias) almost certainly pointed to the spot as a matter of course. And even if he hadn’t, their players would have surrounded the ref - and manager harangued the fourth official - and demanded he look at the screen and change his decision.

 

Luckily though it didn’t cost us...