Everton 2-1 Post Match Thread

[Toddybad]

Referee was awful btw (and the lino at the end)

[Mike the Metal Ed]

52 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Probably not a serious question but I think the linesmen are supposed to delay raising the flag but when after the goal is scored then give their actual opinion and let VAR sort it out. The difference is subtle but in this case makes awarding the goal a little more difficult. However he was clearly onside to the decision could be and was overturned.

 

All actually worked well though a little frustrating.

 

Edit: Reading through the thread it sounds like he may have raised his flag before the ball went in the net. If so, that was appalling.

He raised his flag at the traditional time from pre-VAR, as soon as Nacho made contact with the ball from what he adjudged to be an offside position. 

[WigstonWanderer]

28 minutes ago, Mike the Metal Ed said:

He raised his flag at the traditional time from pre-VAR, as soon as Nacho made contact with the ball from what he adjudged to be an offside position. 

Yes I misunderstood. He shouldn’t have raised his flag until after the goal.

[deep blue]

5 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

One of the standout thing for me was that we didn’t force the play in the closing stages. We played our game until the very end and it paid off. 

 

How many times do you see the clock hit 85mins (and that’s late for some sides) and teams start hitting it long. 

I thought that too. Our winning goal, 3 mins into added-on, and yet the move was cool, calm & clinical from the moment we won back possession to the conclusion. A sublime attack at any time in a game, but at that stage - sensational. We have real class.

 

[TheLittleBigMan]

Ndidi. Just wow.

[Tom12345]

10 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

You shouldn't get slated for having that opinion at all.

 

Barnes for me is one of our most dangerous players. He drives at defenders and causes a lot of problems. A lot of our good play is because of the way he plays. But at the same time, his overall goals and assists aren't what you'd expect from a wide forward playing for the 2nd placed team in the Premier League. The same you could also say of Perez too. But the thing is that Barnes is 21 years old and this is his first full season at the top level, having only come into the team last January. If you frame it that way, I would say he's developing very well indeed and this game time is only helping him.

 

If this was a Liverpool / Man City, they would for sure sign someone else and play them instead of Barnes. But that's because they have huge commercial revenues and currently expect to win titles. At some point it would be great to see Leicester become a team like that, but right now developing talent as building a team is the other way to make a great team without spending a fortune.

 

We could and maybe should still sign another wide player to compete with him, and if we make Champions League I expect we will 100% do that as we would need more depth in the squad anyway. But I don't think we *have* to sign someone right now. It would for sure though help if he could bag a few more goals! He gets the chances but doesn't put them away at the moment. But for me overall I still think he's a good player. He does need to improve but he has the time to do it. If he was playing like this age 25/26, then I'd have a different opinion.

Good post StriderHiryu.

 

I am a Barnes fan generally but I can see where some of the doubts come from. As you said, he is young and this is his first EPL season as a starter so there is still a lot of room to improve - just look at Monster Ndidi this season who has divided opinions in the past but is now truly awesome. 

 

I think Barnes is already a very dangerous player provided he gets the ball. He creates with his strong mazy runs and passes and his presence does give us another dimension in attack, allowing others like Vardy, Chilwell and Maddison to work off the space he helps create by drawing defenders to him. To me, he just has that raw ingredients in him that you dont see in many to be great. Rodgers has gone out of his way to praise him a few times so he must also see something in him. I think part of the fans’ issue is that he often seems able to do something special so when he does it less often some fans get disappointed.

 

I do think Barnes though needs to work more on his positioning and also his chemistry with Chilwell. He often gets frustrated, and likewise I see Chilwell getting frustrated, with him not receiving the ball or not being in a position to receive the ball. Barnes drops out of the game from time to time because he stands too far forward and become isolated. I am not sure if he gets told by Rodgers to do so, but I have noticed that when Albrighton gets on, Albrighton stands further back so Chilwell can easily pass to him and it seems they work better together.  I am not sure whether Barnes would work better with Ricardo on the other side, but he needs to understand tactics and positioning better in order to become more effective.

Edited 2 December 2019 by Tom12345

[Tom12345]

1 hour ago, Mike the Metal Ed said:

He raised his flag at the traditional time from pre-VAR, as soon as Nacho made contact with the ball from what he adjudged to be an offside position. 

I agree. But with VAR, I would say they need to review this incident and learn from it. There is a first for everything and I think it would be good to look at whether the linesman should delay raising a flag in order not to interfere with a potential VAR reversal.

 

Also, as a learning for all, if you are the defence, play until the ball goes out of play or there is a whistle. The FA should also make this clear.

 

Otherwise, the benefit for having VAR would be undermined. 

 

On this occasion, we are lucky Everton sort of play on, but if they didnt, it would have been more controversial or worst the VAR may not have given us the goal.

Edited 2 December 2019 by Tom12345

[Guest ttfn]

14 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

I agree. But with VAR, I would say they need to review this incident and learn from it. There is a first for everything and I think it would be good to look at whether the linesman should delay raising a flag in order not to interfere with a potential VAR reversal.

 

Also, as a learning for all, if you are the defence, play until the ball goes out of play or there is a whistle. The FA should also make this clear.

 

Otherwise, the benefit for having VAR would be undermined. 

 

On this occasion, we are lucky Everton sort of play on, but if they didnt, it would have been more controversial or worst the VAR may not have given us the goal.

I think the protocol is that the linesman is supposed to keep his flag down unless certain.

 

But as others have said the linesman’s flag has only ever been advisory. Everton have nothing to complain about. 

[Gwyn]

Clattenburg reckons the assistant erred and broke protocol raising his flag. In a tight decision the flag should not be raised, and any appeal shall be dealt with by using VAR. 

Also anyone wanting to watch highlights the club website has them and its free, just join lcfc. Com

[CosbehFox]

I’ll say again Everton despite quality in their squad were snide all game. Feigning injuries, trying to get players booked, wasting time, slowing the game down. 

 

At 1-1 they were slow walking to throw ins. Any team who overly play on those snide tactics deserve last minute goals against them. 

 

[VinceNoir]

Yup. Maybe it's already been pointed out earlier in the thread, but I can't believe how there was only 3 minutes added on. Without trying to sound like an obsessed nutter, I'm quite certain there would've been at least 4 or 5 minutes added if the same thing was happening at Anfield, Old Trafford etc.

[Blue Ed]

Still buzzin!

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I’ll say again Everton despite quality in their squad were snide all game. Feigning injuries, trying to get players booked, wasting time, slowing the game down. 

 

At 1-1 they were slow walking to throw ins. Any team who overly play on those snide tactics deserve last minute goals against them. 

 

Burnley are probably the worst for it but Everton definitely up there too. 

[Guest ttfn]

49 minutes ago, VinceNoir said:

Yup. Maybe it's already been pointed out earlier in the thread, but I can't believe how there was only 3 minutes added on. Without trying to sound like an obsessed nutter, I'm quite certain there would've been at least 4 or 5 minutes added if the same thing was happening at Anfield, Old Trafford etc.

In the first half Everton took about 90 seconds celebrating their goal, there were at least 2 or 3 reasonably lengthy stoppages for injuries and a VAR incident which went on for about 3 minutes.

 

The ref added 2 minutes of stoppage time.

 

They have to take timekeeping away from the referee, it’s mad that in a 90mph sport like this they’re also supposed to ensure that time is kept. Especially when there’s a simple solution in stopping the clock, a solution which is used in most other time restricted sports.

 

You could shorten Premier League matches to 2 30 minute halves where the clock stops when the ball goes dead and still have the ball in play about 10% longer than we currently get on average.

[Meat and 2 veg]

5 minutes ago, ttfn said:

In the first half Everton took about 90 seconds celebrating their goal, there were at least 2 or 3 reasonably lengthy stoppages for injuries and a VAR incident which went on for about 3 minutes.

 

The ref added 2 minutes of stoppage time.

 

They have to take timekeeping away from the referee, it’s mad that in a 90mph sport like this they’re also supposed to ensure that time is kept. Especially when there’s a simple solution in stopping the clock, a solution which is used in most other time restricted sports.

 

You could shorten Premier League matches to 2 30 minute halves where the clock stops when the ball goes dead and still have the ball in play about 10% longer than we currently get on average.

The first half stoppage was utterly ridiculous. 

[DerbyshireFox]

Well it was nice to have a challenge for a change 

 

In all seriousness that was a tough evenings work. Everton set up very well and put a real shift in, looking a threat on the counter. Sidibie was excellent as a wing back for them. We started getting through eventually but I couldn’t see the winner coming, but what a way to win it. 

I am so pleased for Nacho! He changed the game when he came on. His quick build up play created spaces that we were struggling to make. And what a finish by the way. The guy had to put up with being booed onto the pitch at home last season, so to have such a significant moment like that made it all the more special! If he can keep that level of impact up, then happy days. Bring on Watford, hopefully with a better all round display. We will no doubt have to grind a few more wins like yesterday out over the coming weeks, but if we play to our strengths we should win comfortably 

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

 

I do think Barnes though needs to work more on his positioning and also his chemistry with Chilwell. He often gets frustrated, and likewise I see Chilwell getting frustrated, with him not receiving the ball or not being in a position to receive the ball. Barnes drops out of the game from time to time because he stands too far forward and become isolated. I am not sure if he gets told by Rodgers to do so, but I have noticed that when Albrighton gets on, Albrighton stands further back so Chilwell can easily pass to him and it seems they work better together.  I am not sure whether Barnes would work better with Ricardo on the other side, but he needs to understand tactics and positioning better in order to become more effective.

I have to say I don't think this is the case anymore. It definitely was true when Barnes first came into the team, but for me it's no longer an issue. Those two combine very well on multiple occasions, a great example being the cross Barnes made for Vardy after he and Chilwell combined against Burnley. Barnes gets frustrated when he fails to score or put in a telling contribution from a good position and he seems frustrated with himself more than annoyed at any other player. Barnes had plenty of good moments yesterday, that surging run and pass to Vardy who crossed to Maddison was really slick play and summed up the best of his game in a nutshell. And I think it was Chilwell who played that pass to him to get him going in the first place.

 

Barnes currently has 4 assists which is good going, but 1 goal only is where he's lacking. He's had the opportunities to have had many more and should probably be on the same amount that Perez has. At the same time, compare him to Ayoze Perez who has more goals, but less assists. A lot of the criticisms we have about Barnes you could make for him too. Perez had a good first half yesterday and probably should have scored once, but didn't. But both players contribute a lot to the team in terms of team pressing so it's not like they are passengers. But if we really want to win the title again (!) then both probably need to go up 10-20%. Or perhaps it will be the Nacho man that comes to our rescue as basically we need a few more goals outside of Vardy in our team, despite our extremely impressive goal difference and goals scored.

 

But as I say Leicester are the sort of club where young players get games and can develop. If you look at the level Harvey Barnes is at compared to where Chilwell and Maddison were after 30 or so games, I would say he's probably doing about as well as, if not better than those two.

[Mike Oxlong]

The lads piling on top of the management team is possibly my favourite moment of the season so far

 

Shows what we’re all about

[CosbehFox]

52 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Burnley are probably the worst for it but Everton definitely up there too. 

Was the sign of a manager under pressure ultimately but this club whose fans were crying about a better style of football and then back to resorting to poor shithousery. 

 

Then get all precious on social media about celebrating the winner. They were practically cheering on a draw their fans. 

Edited 2 December 2019 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

48 minutes ago, ttfn said:

In the first half Everton took about 90 seconds celebrating their goal, there were at least 2 or 3 reasonably lengthy stoppages for injuries and a VAR incident which went on for about 3 minutes.

 

The ref added 2 minutes of stoppage time.

 

They have to take timekeeping away from the referee, it’s mad that in a 90mph sport like this they’re also supposed to ensure that time is kept. Especially when there’s a simple solution in stopping the clock, a solution which is used in most other time restricted sports.

 

You could shorten Premier League matches to 2 30 minute halves where the clock stops when the ball goes dead and still have the ball in play about 10% longer than we currently get on average.

He gave 3 minutes for second half injury time but then proceeded to completely stop the watch for the Sidibe injury/VAR check. 

 

How did the minutes of 90 to 93 take longer than the minutes of 46 to 89?

[ARM1968]

Who gives a fuch really?  Itchy Naco was onside. Simple. We got the 3pts. How many really dodgy decisions have Liverpool had. We’re unlikely to catch them, but we might - we need the right decisions made and the right decision was made. Enough said. Watford next. 

[Ric Flair]

56 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I have to say I don't think this is the case anymore. It definitely was true when Barnes first came into the team, but for me it's no longer an issue. Those two combine very well on multiple occasions, a great example being the cross Barnes made for Vardy after he and Chilwell combined against Burnley. Barnes gets frustrated when he fails to score or put in a telling contribution from a good position and he seems frustrated with himself more than annoyed at any other player. Barnes had plenty of good moments yesterday, that surging run and pass to Vardy who crossed to Maddison was really slick play and summed up the best of his game in a nutshell. And I think it was Chilwell who played that pass to him to get him going in the first place.

 

Barnes currently has 4 assists which is good going, but 1 goal only is where he's lacking. He's had the opportunities to have had many more and should probably be on the same amount that Perez has. At the same time, compare him to Ayoze Perez who has more goals, but less assists. A lot of the criticisms we have about Barnes you could make for him too. Perez had a good first half yesterday and probably should have scored once, but didn't. But both players contribute a lot to the team in terms of team pressing so it's not like they are passengers. But if we really want to win the title again (!) then both probably need to go up 10-20%. Or perhaps it will be the Nacho man that comes to our rescue as basically we need a few more goals outside of Vardy in our team, despite our extremely impressive goal difference and goals scored.

 

But as I say Leicester are the sort of club where young players get games and can develop. If you look at the level Harvey Barnes is at compared to where Chilwell and Maddison were after 30 or so games, I would say he's probably doing about as well as, if not better than those two.

Barnes run and pass to Perez in the 1st half as well was sublime, out of the two yesterday it was Barnes who was the more dangerous of our wingers. Perez has gotten in to some glorious positions in the last few games and only converted one of them, I just wish Barnes could be gifted some of the same positions the other side and get a goal or two to kick on. He has certainly been guilty of missing some gilt edged chances himself but in the last month or two he's not been granted many proper chances but it's surely coming.

[Deeg67]

What a game to watch on delay the next day!  Staying off twitter was worth it.

 

Kelechi, obviously, great.  Goal and an assist and that reflected the impact he had, he was fantastic.  I have to say I feel bad for Silva, though, because Everton really did play a very solid match and that's a hell of a way to lose.  Nice sub from BR, but of course if Gray hadn't been sick he probably wouldn't even have had Kelechi in the squad.

 

On the VAR question...  First off, he was definitely onside, no question.  But how can the defenders not switch off a little even involuntarily when they see the flag go up?  The rules are what they are but really, that's unfair on the defending team.  A double blunder by the linesman really - not only did he blow the call, but he should have waited to flag it.

Edited 2 December 2019 by Deeg67

[Spudulike]

If VAR decided there was no contact in the penalty decision then it must've been simulation and a yellow card. Or more likely they couldn't tell if there was contact or not and therefore not a clear and obvious error by the ref. The penalty should've been awarded.

[whoareyaaa]

6 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

What a game to watch on delay the next day!  Staying off twitter was worth it.

 

Kelechi, obviously, great.  Goal and an assist and that reflected the impact he had, he was fantastic.  I have to say I feel bad for Silva, though, because Everton really did play a very solid match and that's a hell of a way to lose.  Nice sub from BR, but of course if Gray hadn't been sick he probably wouldn't even have had Kelechi in the squad.

 

On the VAR question...  First off, he was definitely onside, no question.  But how can the defenders not switch off a little even involuntarily when they see the flag go up?  The rules are what they are but really, that's unfair on the defending team.  A double blunder by the linesman really - not only did he blow the call, but he should have waited to flag it.

to me it stunk of the official knowing a goal was going to be scored yet he still waved his flag like he was at the queens parade, which was the wrong thing to do and it could have distracted the Everton player/s slightly, in the champions league the flag is kept down and VAR calls the correct decision. 

 

on another note I have never seen us have the ref before, it stunk of bad officiating throughout imo.