Corona Virus

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Have experienced a sore throat today.whilst working (NHS).

 

So decided to book an Corona Test, with one being already available (at Birstall Park and Ride) at 08:00 tomorrow.

Hope it's all fine mate and it's just hayfever (my auto correct changed hayfever to hangover , good thing I noticed!) or something.

 

Or something bad enough to get you time off work, but not "it". Have a guilt-free break.

 

Hang in there buddy, I get half my rep points off you!  

[ScouseFox]

i dunno i just remember hearing on the news that countries that have rolled out an app have made sure you can't troll it. i ain't a scientist bro. 

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

So this new app lets you know if you've come into contact with someone who has Covid19.

 

But what the hell is someone with Covid19 doing out and about? I don't get it.

 

Then you're going to get kids who will think it's hilarious to put they have Covid19 when they haven't, just so anyone who comes near them has to self-isolate.

 

 

 

It's not going to work. Self policing never does.

It's flawed in so many ways. It's going to be a rushed through propaganda exercise that will result in little benefit or confidence in it's accuracy. I could come into contact with several people a shift who may or may not have symptoms. What happens then? Every person I go to we have to assume has Covid, do I then put that on the app? I'd be off work in isolation for a year if I had to register every potential contact. 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52568405

 

Deaths keep rising, as do cases, and never let a good crisis go to waste.

[the fox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52568405

 

Deaths keep rising, as do cases, and never let a good crisis go to waste.

Dog whistle!

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, the fox said:

Dog whistle!

A stupidly obvious one, too. However, it seems that they are often (sadly) effective.

[the fox]

.

Edited 8 May 2020 by the fox
The post got into politics so I removed it

[Manwell Pablo]

16 hours ago, Barrowblue said:

It's a similar situation with the risks associated with smoking , alcohol and obesity.

 

The global death rate from smoking this year so far is 1.8m

The global death rate from alcohol this year so far is 870k

Obesity is a tricky one to put down as a cause as it covers so many other illnesses. 

 

These numbers won't stop people drinking 10 pints, chuffing 10 fags and tucking into a kebab any time soon. 

 

I keep typing out responses to this post and I keep having to stop and think back track and re read, surely I must of lost something here and that's not actually what he meant. Then I go back and check and it read's the same than I actually start to despair.

 

Are you actually saying 2.67m deaths born out of nothing but poor life style choices are a reason to ignore a virus that could left to it's own devices has already shown it's potential to kill more than 3.6 Million people a year and that is with half the entire global population trying to prevent it's spread.

 

I mean the guy before you made a totally bull shit point about deaths involving travel which is obviously a requirement of modern society and without it we wouldn't have food water or basic necessitates but I think you might of actually managed to top him in terms of being totally out of touch with reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sampson]

Nevermind 

Edited 8 May 2020 by Sampson

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

How?

 

What's to stop someone who hasn't got it saying they have?

 

Genuine question. If the answer is that it requires a certified clinician to activate, I'm fine with that, but...

 

Then how will they know they have it? You have to tell the app. It doesn't know unless you know.

 

So if you're either pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic, you're not going to have told the app you've got it.

 

So it's pointless.

 

I'd be all for it, but it seems a bit Emperor's New Clothes, people will believe because science (without logically explaining what that science is.) Seems more like an attempt to reassure people it's ok to go back out, super-app will protect you! 

 

 

I’ve come to realise that the people who dream these things up live in a different world to me. Imagine it, you’ve got your app on your phone and now you feel safe, so you go into a shop or on a train and it starts beeping to tell you are within 3 metres of someone with the virus, but you’re not sure who it is, then what? Walk away! On a train. Hit the break glass for emergency button.. or you get on a lift and it starts beeping. It’ll be like someone farting , you look round and all you might see is someone with a sneaky smile on their face.

 Totally impractical.

[Crinklyfox]

13 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Anyone got a theory or read anything about why it's killing black and asian people in Britain at such a disportionate rate compared to white people? 

 

I'd imagine diet will play a part with Indians and Pakistani who normally suffer from heart disease and diabetes more than average. 

There may be a number of factors but the most convincing argument I've seen is in respect of Vitamin D.

 

Vitamin D is necessary for the immune system.  A deficiency can weaken the immune system.  I reviewed a paper in the British Medical Journal in 2017 which studied the effectiveness of Vitamin D in preventing all upper respiratory infections.  It concluded that for people with a healthy level of Vitamin D taking a 10 microgram supplement increased their resistance to upper respiratory infections by 14% and for those with a Vitamin D deficiency taking the same supplement increased their resistance by 70%.

 

This is relevant as the darker a person's skin colour, the less efficiently they process Vitamin D from sunlight (we get only a small proportion of Vitamin D from our diet).  So it follows that many people with black or brown skins are likely to have a Vitamin D deficiency, thus leaving them with more chance of contracting upper respiratory infections.

 

There has been very little investigation on Vitamin D for Covid-19, but there was one study in Indonesia on Covid-19 deaths where Vitamin D levels were tested.  There were three levels of Vitamin D established; adequate, deficient and highly deficient.  The study found that there were ten times as many deaths in the highly deficient category than the adequate category.  

 

This isn't conclusive but I find it convincing.  I've been taking Vitamin D supplements for the last couple of months.  

[WigstonWanderer]

3 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’ve come to realise that the people who dream these things up live in a different world to me. Imagine it, you’ve got your app on your phone and now you feel safe, so you go into a shop or on a train and it starts beeping to tell you are within 3 metres of someone with the virus, but you’re not sure who it is, then what? Walk away! On a train. Hit the break glass for emergency button.. or you get on a lift and it starts beeping. It’ll be like someone farting , you look round and all you might see is someone with a sneaky smile on their face.

 Totally impractical.

Not sure if you’re serious, but I don’t think that’s how it works. Our app in Australia is supposed to be of a similar type.
 

What is supposed to happen is that if you spend more than a few minutes closer than 1.5 m to someone running the app on their phone, the phones exchange ids and store them. At this point no information about the encounter is stored centrally on a server. If you later are found to be Covid positive, with your permission, the data stored on your phone is uploaded to a server, and used to contact anyone you came into contact with so that they can self isolate and perhaps go for testing.

 

In Australia as I understand, the process of uploading is done with a health professional, so presumably can’t be done independently by the owner of the phone. I am not sure what form contacting people takes, but presumably it is done through the app. I don’t know:

 

- How secure it is.

 

I know it has been criticised for using a centralised rather than decentralised model, for using Amazon rather than a local company, and for encryption keys being stored by by the same organisation. Supposedly the information is stored on an Australian based server and cannot be accessed by the US government.

 

- How well it works.

 

Sounds like there’s plenty of scope for the information exchange to not work due to app sleeping, as discussed a few pages back.

 

- Whether the UK app works in the same way.

 

From what’s been said above it sounds as if it’s left to infected people to decide to upload their info? Surely there must be more safeguards?

Edited 8 May 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[Nalis]

3 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’ve come to realise that the people who dream these things up live in a different world to me. Imagine it, you’ve got your app on your phone and now you feel safe, so you go into a shop or on a train and it starts beeping to tell you are within 3 metres of someone with the virus, but you’re not sure who it is, then what? Walk away! On a train. Hit the break glass for emergency button.. or you get on a lift and it starts beeping. It’ll be like someone farting , you look round and all you might see is someone with a sneaky smile on their face.

 Totally impractical.

Yeah, the only practical reason for having a tracking app at this stage of the game would be to figure out an estimate of how many people may have had it (while we wait for a working antibody test) rather than the intended initial reason, and even that is flawed.

 

As you say otherwise pointless on a train for example especially in a big city where you are more than likely to be sharing a carriage with someone who has / has had symptoms.

Edited 8 May 2020 by Nalis

[Nalis]

7 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Not sure if you’re serious, but I don’t think that’s how it works. Our app in Australia is supposed to be of a similar type.
 

What is supposed to happen is that if you spend more than a few minutes closer than 1.5 m to someone running the app on their phone, the phones exchange ids and store them. At this point no information about the encounter is stored centrally on a server. If you later are found to be Covid positive, with your permission, the data stored on your phone is uploaded to a server, and used to contact anyone you came into contact with so that they can self isolate and perhaps go for testing.

 

In Australia as I understand, the process of uploading is done with a health professional, so presumably can’t be done independently by the owner of the phone. I am not sure what form contacting people takes, but presumably it is done through the app. I don’t know:

 

- How secure it is.

 

I know it has been criticised for using a centralised rather than decentralised model, for using Amazon rather than a local company, and for encryption keys being stored by by the same organisation. Supposedly the information is stored on an Australian based server and cannot be accessed by the US government.

 

- How well it works.

 

Sounds like there’s plenty of scope for the information exchange to not work due to app sleeping, as discussed a few pages back.

 

- Whether the UK app works in the same way.

 

From what’s been said above it sounds as if it’s left to infected people to decide to upload their info? Surely there must be more safeguards?

Fair comments, it probably worked more effectively in Australia when the virus was in its infancy but the UK should have had in place months ago.

 

In a city like London there would be millions of close encounters with people who tested positive and others not tested due to reliance on packed public transport up to lockdown.

[Barrowblue]

4 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

I keep typing out responses to this post and I keep having to stop and think back track and re read, surely I must of lost something here and that's not actually what he meant. Then I go back and check and it read's the same than I actually start to despair.

 

Are you actually saying 2.67m deaths born out of nothing but poor life style choices are a reason to ignore a virus that could left to it's own devices has already shown it's potential to kill more than 3.6 Million people a year and that is with half the entire global population trying to prevent it's spread.

 

I mean the guy before you made a totally bull shit point about deaths involving travel which is obviously a requirement of modern society and without it we wouldn't have food water or basic necessitates but I think you might of actually managed to top him in terms of being totally out of touch with reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please don't despair. 

 

The post was in reply to a good point about the risks of death due to driving. Feel free to find it and try to understand the context. 

 

The post was about 'risk management' and how I think that people make lifestyle choices knowing the risk of death involved. 

 

Whilst getting Covid19 is not a lifestyle choice there will be actions that people in future will be taking that will increase their chance of contracting the virus. Society will not let that risk get in their way of going to a concert or festival and enjoying themselves. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52543692

 

 

Edited 8 May 2020 by Barrowblue
Link added

[ozleicester]

My understanding of the OZ app is..

 

You must be within 1.5 metres of a person for a minimum 15 minutes.

All the app does is make tracing who youve been with, easier.

Given that most people already have google maps on their phone and can trace exactly where they have been every day for the last gawd knows how long...the app is just  a bullshit idea to coerce people into accepting greater government intrusion into their lives.

 

Edit.. and it is STILL not working properly in Australia and they STill have not released the coding
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/dta-admits-covidsafe-performance-highly-variable-on-ios-547838

Edited 8 May 2020 by ozleicester

[Leicester_Loyal]

The fact this has got 25k retweets sums Twitter up, clueless. Are they not aware of the economic implications that a 12-15 week full scale lockdown would bring? Oh what am I saying, of course they know, it's just political point scoring.

[The whole world smiles]

1 hour ago, Crinklyfox said:

There may be a number of factors but the most convincing argument I've seen is in respect of Vitamin D.

 

Vitamin D is necessary for the immune system.  A deficiency can weaken the immune system.  I reviewed a paper in the British Medical Journal in 2017 which studied the effectiveness of Vitamin D in preventing all upper respiratory infections.  It concluded that for people with a healthy level of Vitamin D taking a 10 microgram supplement increased their resistance to upper respiratory infections by 14% and for those with a Vitamin D deficiency taking the same supplement increased their resistance by 70%.

 

This is relevant as the darker a person's skin colour, the less efficiently they process Vitamin D from sunlight (we get only a small proportion of Vitamin D from our diet).  So it follows that many people with black or brown skins are likely to have a Vitamin D deficiency, thus leaving them with more chance of contracting upper respiratory infections.

 

There has been very little investigation on Vitamin D for Covid-19, but there was one study in Indonesia on Covid-19 deaths where Vitamin D levels were tested.  There were three levels of Vitamin D established; adequate, deficient and highly deficient.  The study found that there were ten times as many deaths in the highly deficient category than the adequate category.  

 

This isn't conclusive but I find it convincing.  I've been taking Vitamin D supplements for the last couple of months.  

Very interesting. Your post has compelled me to buy some vitamin D! Do you know if it make any difference if it's the D3 variety? As that seems to be mainly what's for sale online? 

[Dahnsouff]

Irresponsible and inexcusable in my eyes 

 

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Irresponsible and inexcusable in my eyes 

Disgraceful really.

[Nalis]

22 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

The fact this has got 25k retweets sums Twitter up, clueless. Are they not aware of the economic implications that a 12-15 week full scale lockdown would bring? Oh what am I saying, of course they know, it's just political point scoring.

 

8 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Irresponsible and inexcusable in my eyes 

 

Sad to see the two extremes; the tweet coming from someone a millionaire who works in the arts and clearly doesn't understand economics whilst the other glorifies lockdown.

 

Where's the sensible middle ground, no wonder we're ****ed as a nation.

[Unabomber]

Anyone seen the Kyle Walker statement? 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Unabomber said:

Anyone seen the Kyle Walker statement? 

No, what did he say?

[Izzy]

17 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Irresponsible and inexcusable in my eyes 

 

Wow, Adele looks fvckin stunning 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Wow, Adele looks fvckin stunning 

 

Straight to the meat of the matter - top man