Ben Chilwell

[TMELcfc]

5 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I've watched him a couple times. Constantly exposed defensively, very inconsistent offensively. Every Norwich fan I've spoken to says he performed poorly. Klopp may have wanted him, and maybe he could have made something of him. That doesn't guarantee that Brendan could do the same. He is a big gamble, and a very clear downgrade on Chilwell.

 

Edit: also, Klopp clearly didn't think he was worth Norwich's valuation of him, as he signed Tsimikas instead.

Norwich fans I know reckon he was one of the few players who turned up MOST weeks... surprised them by making the step, they thought Aaron’s would be the best full back but Lewis has been... 

[Happy Fox]

Jamaal Lewis is a prospect but he isn’t the finished deal, I would much rather we go for experience Alex Telles, Phillip Max etc if Chilwell leaves 

[honeybradger]

9 minutes ago, lcfceaves said:

Norwich fans I know reckon he was one of the few players who turned up MOST weeks... surprised them by making the step, they thought Aaron’s would be the best full back but Lewis has been... 

Not what ive heard at all, lewis was initially dropped for norwich's older backup apparently until he got injured, aarons has been a mainstay of their team the whole way through.

[Raw Dykes]

7 hours ago, honeybradger said:

If you aim for success and fail then we at least end up top 10, if you stop trying to show ambition as a club and flog your already established players in order to buy multiple bargain players, like southampton did, we can very quickly end up at the lower end of the table. It's a very dangerous mentality to think that we're better than other clubs in the transfermarket and will never make the wrong decisions, it's a very dangerous game to play and it only takes one transfer window of losing a key player and buying loads of duds with that money before we're in trouble. Even if you look at the maguire deal it wasnt the masterclass everyone makes it out to be, 50 mil of that 80 mil went into praet and perez, praet having an ok season and that's it really, perez ended up not suiting the role we bought him for. Considering how sketchy soyuncu looked in pre season and last season he easily might not have worked out the way he did and we would have been in trouble, contrast that to the pretty much assured success we would have had if maguire had stuck around and it makes you think if gaining praet/perez was worth the risk. If anything the best thing to come out of that transfer was that we upgraded maguire, not the money we got for him and how we used it.

 

Even if we dont get it we need to keep pushing for top4/top6 and the best way to do that is with known quantities rather than soyuncu/maguire gambles that might not work out as well as last time.

I don't think the comparison between what we are doing and what Southampton did is fair at all. We're selling one 1st team player a season, while they were selling 2 to 6 key players a year. I'd agree that it's dangerous to sell half your first XI in one season, but we're not doing that.

 

Is it a dangerous mentality to think that we're better than other clubs in the transfer market? What if it's demonstrably true that we are? We've only been in back in the top flight 6 years, but already we've had 4 top 10 finishes, including getting into Europe twice and winning the pissing thing, and our 1st XI contains about 1 player who the top 6 wouldn't be interested in. How many outside the top 6 could say that?

 

I don't think anyone believes they'll never get a transfer wrong. Every transfer is a risk to some degree. Our hit rate is better than most, and that's about the best you can realistically hope for. Our success % is good because we realise the importance of scouting and analysis, and we invest accordingly. Because of this, we minimise the risk as much as possible, and to use this advantage, it helps us to roll the dice occassionally. That we only sell one key player a year is probably slightly too cautious given our success in the transfer market.

 

Re: Maguire sale. It's not suddenly a bad decision because the players you buy don't set the world alight in their first season. £80m for Slabhead is an insane price. The club did incredibly well to stand firm and get that amount for that player. If you disagree with that, I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning. Perez and Praet have perhaps been no more than decent so far, I'll grant you, but the point is, by selling one player in Maguire (not even in our top 2 defenders that season), we had the opportunity to strengthen multiple positions. A club in our position has to take that opportunity. I think you could ask any Leicester or Man Utd fan whether they'd rather have the player or the money and you'd get the same answer every time.

 

Soyuncu is a clear upgrade on Maguire, and a few years younger, as well. Whether he played well for the reserves makes no difference whatsoever.

 

I think you might be missing the glaring point that keeping all players all the time is not an option for us. We have to sell occassionally. We need the cash to reinvest with, and sometimes players want to leave. If a player wants to go, I think you have to let him. If you try to force him to stay, he'll be unhappy, not at his best, forever losing value and in danger of unsettling the squad, while you build yourself a reputation as being a difficult club players can't escape from.

 

I don't see selling a player as aiming for mediocrity or accepting defeat. I see it as an opportunity to use the transfer market to your advantage and make the squad stronger than it was before.

[Nicolo Barella]

32 minutes ago, lcfceaves said:

Norwich fans I know reckon he was one of the few players who turned up MOST weeks... surprised them by making the step, they thought Aaron’s would be the best full back but Lewis has been... 

Aarons was replaced by Byram halfway through the season and only got back because Byram was injured. If he was really giving it his all and playing well he wouldn't have been replaced like that.

[Gerard]

3 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

I completely agree that I and 40% of respondents to that poll thought that in Feb 2018 that Chilwell wasn’t much better than Schlupp at that point. His improvement in the 2 1/2 years since has been admirable and I definitely think he’ll be a huge loss and more difficult to replace than Maguire due to his style of play; I for one don’t want him sold. 
 

if you took great schadenfreude from that poll wait till you see what I wrote about Vardy back in 2014 or Pearson mk1. 

 

Funnily enough on your original thread 2.5 years a go I was gushing about Chilwell and had the opposite opinion of you and now again I have the opposite opinion of you. In the last 2.5 years I don't believe his game has moved on at all and I think once a player hits the 23/24 mark then you can't give them any excuse for potential. Of course there are exceptions like Vardy but I believe Chilwell is still the same player despite having another 2.5 years experience being surrounded by top players and top coaches.

 

It's the main reason I would sell him for top money as although I like many aspects of his game like his stamina, athleticism and his ability to travel with the ball long distances I still believe he's not improved significantly defensively and his crossing and delivery haven't improved. Luke Thomas looked much better with the ball in three games than Chilwell has all season.

 

I think if we do sell Chilwell for big money it's because of his reputation more than his ability. England's young left back, three assists in an England game, etc. I think if £65m was spent on him Lampard might be disappointed in what he bought two months down the line.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

4 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

Funnily enough on your original thread 2.5 years a go I was gushing about Chilwell and had the opposite opinion of you and now again I have the opposite opinion of you. In the last 2.5 years I don't believe his game has moved on at all and I think once a player hits the 23/24 mark then you can't give them any excuse for potential. Of course there are exceptions like Vardy but I believe Chilwell is still the same player despite having another 2.5 years experience being surrounded by top players and top coaches.

 

It's the main reason I would sell him for top money as although I like many aspects of his game like his stamina, athleticism and his ability to travel with the ball long distances I still believe he's not improved significantly defensively and his crossing and delivery haven't improved. Luke Thomas looked much better with the ball in three games than Chilwell has all season.

 

I think if we do sell Chilwell for big money it's because of his reputation more than his ability. England's young left back, three assists in an England game, etc. I think if £65m was spent on him Lampard might be disappointed in what he bought two months down the line.

Unfortunately I don’t want to lose him but he will be relatively easy to replace to some extent.  Chilly isn’t the finished article and will become a phenomenal player at Chelsea, but if we buy in Jamal Lewis for example, he isn’t the finished article either.  He will also be coming to a brand new academy and with great coaching will be a great signing too.

 

The rest of Chilly’s money can then be spent on quality in other areas. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

3 minutes ago, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Unfortunately I don’t want to lose him but he will be relatively easy to replace to some extent.  Chilly isn’t the finished article and will become a phenomenal player at Chelsea, but if we buy in Jamal Lewis for example, he isn’t the finished article either.  He will also be coming to a brand new academy and with great coaching will be a great signing too.

 

The rest of Chilly’s money can then be spent on quality in other areas. 

Chilwell will look good at Chelsea as he won't have to do as much defensive work there. He'll be able to utilise his offensive strengths more so will suit them. The converse was true with Kanye when his defensive stats dropped down and people thought he wasn't as good, it was more that there just wasn't the work for him to do there as there was here for us.

[Gerard]

Just now, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Unfortunately I don’t want to lose him but he will be relatively easy to replace to some extent.  Chilly isn’t the finished article and will become a phenomenal player at Chelsea, but if we buy in Jamal Lewis for example, he isn’t the finished article either.  He will also be coming to a brand new academy and with great coaching will be a great signing too.

 

The rest of Chilly’s money can then be spent on quality in other areas. 

 

As @Raw Dykes has alluded to in a few posts above this one selling your first team players isn't always a backwards step. Getting £35m for Drinkwater and £80m for Maguire is bloody good business, it looked it at the time and it looks it now. Getting £65m for Chilwell has exactly the same vibe. Our net spend over the last 4 years is about £25m a season and without selling a Drinkwater, Maguire, Mahrez, etc then our incoming is probably one biggish buy a season.

 

If we have £25m net this season to spend then it will be a boring window without selling Chilwell. I also don't think we'll miss him that much and could name at least half a dozen players who we would miss much more that hardly anyone would dispute.

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Chilwell will look good at Chelsea as he won't have to do as much defensive work there. He'll be able to utilise his offensive strengths more so will suit them. The converse was true with Kanye when his defensive stats dropped down and people thought he wasn't as good, it was more that there just wasn't the work for him to do there as there was here for us.

Clearly a very talented all rounder ......

[Lesta Legend]

35 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Liverpool wanted him because he's a cheap left back that fills a homegrown quota spot with resale value.

 

He would go there to sit on their bench and then they'd sell him in two years time for profit.

 

I think he's been decent but I'd like us to be a bit more ambitious.

There is a reason Liverpool were after him, they use utilise statistical analysis very successfully to obtain the best talent - watch money ball their owner is in this film - while everyone here can have their opinion on the games they've watched and the few Norwich fans they've spoken to teams like Liverpool (And Leicester use same stats based approach) will never waste their own time spending £20m on a player they didn't think could offer something, even if not a first choice.

 

And if people weren't bloody aware from how the club have been operating, they're looking for players that offer better value for money can develope. He fits the mold exactly. Whether you think we should be more ambitious, this is how the club are operating and we have to trust the system and accept this is how it is and moaning on a forum will do the square root of F all. 

 

The club are seemingly learning the lesson from the past i.e. Slimani et Al.

 

We're not going to compete with man u or Liverpool financially ever but we may be able to compete with a similar 'Dortmund model'. That remains to be seen but I'll not have delusional thoughts we have millions to revamp the squad. 

[foxfanazer]

Good luck to the kid anyway. Don't think he warrants half of the criticism he gets on here but hey that's just modern football fans I guess. Don't think he could ever be accused of not giving his best for us and if we receive a high transfer fee from him it will be because of the performances he's put in here. 

[Gerard]

1 minute ago, Lesta Legend said:

There is a reason Liverpool were after him, they use utilise statistical analysis very successfully to obtain the best talent - watch money ball their owner is in this film - while everyone here can have their opinion on the games they've watched and the few Norwich fans they've spoken to teams like Liverpool (And Leicester use same stats based approach) will never waste their own time spending £20m on a player they didn't think could offer something, even if not a first choice.

 

And if people weren't bloody aware from how the club have been operating, they're looking for players that offer better value for money can develope. He fits the mold exactly. Whether you think we should be more ambitious, this is how the club are operating and we have to trust the system and accept this is how it is and moaning on a forum will do the square root of F all. 

 

The club are seemingly learning the lesson from the past i.e. Slimani et Al.

 

We're not going to compete with man u or Liverpool financially ever but we may be able to compete with a similar 'Dortmund model'. That remains to be seen but I'll not have delusional thoughts we have millions to revamp the squad. 

 

Agree with that to a point but Liverpool soon moved on so it was far from a similar situation like Van Dijk when they pursued him for a year and were willing to pay almost any price. IIRC when they signed Van Dijk the popular opinion was he was a good player but well overpriced.

 

The Lewis bid may have been a smokescreen to get Tsimikas over the line or maybe Liverpool just tried it on to get a competent reserve player at a bargain price who they thought they could move on a couple of year down the line? Either way they didn't rate him that highly enough that they weren't prepared to walk away a few days later when the price was a few million more that they wanted to pay. 

[Shane]

Jamal Lewis was benched by Sam Byram until he got injured 

 

[UniFox21]

9 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Good luck to the kid anyway. Don't think he warrants half of the criticism he gets on here but hey that's just modern football fans I guess. Don't think he could ever be accused of not giving his best for us and if we receive a high transfer fee from him it will be because of the performances he's put in here. 

Some of the crap spouted by Chelsea fans on twitter was incredible to see

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, Shane said:

Jamal Lewis was benched by Sam Byram until he got injured 

 

Ricardo played RM a lot until Amartey got injured? 

[Steve Earle]

18 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

As @Raw Dykes has alluded to in a few posts above this one selling your first team players isn't always a backwards step. Getting £35m for Drinkwater and £80m for Maguire is bloody good business, it looked it at the time and it looks it now. Getting £65m for Chilwell has exactly the same vibe. Our net spend over the last 4 years is about £25m a season and without selling a Drinkwater, Maguire, Mahrez, etc then our incoming is probably one biggish buy a season.

 

If we have £25m net this season to spend then it will be a boring window without selling Chilwell. I also don't think we'll miss him that much and could name at least half a dozen players who we would miss much more that hardly anyone would dispute.

I don’t think it’s necessary to sell Chilwell to sign the players we need. 

Sell:

Slimani £10m

Iheanacho £20m

Gray £15m

Ghezzal £5m

plus losing the wages of King, Kaputska, Silva, James, Diabate, Amartey with possibly another £2m in fees too. So that’s ten out (might have to settle for 7/8) and £52m in. 

 

Sign:

Trincao £7.5m loan fee

Edouard £30m

M Sarr free

Buendia £20m

 

Books balanced, and a second winger would be possible if the club went a little beyond their usual £25-30m net spend.

[Lesta Legend]

30 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Ricardo played RM a lot until Amartey got injured? 

Soyuncu was benched until Maguire was sold, now we've had to make do with an inferior alternative...

Edited 16 August 2020 by Lesta Legend

[norwichfox]

1 minute ago, Lesta Legend said:

Soyuncu was benched until Maguire was sold, now we've had to make do with an interior alternative...

We need interior players for the covered training ground pitch...

[Babylon]

£64m for Chilwell is good money, yeah it's not mental money like we got for Maguire so it feels mildly disappointing. But we got that because he'd become some hyped cult figure off the back of the World Cup and United were in desperate dire straights. Chelsea have their act together it seems at the moment, I can't see them panicking the way Man U did. 

 

To put things in perspective little old Leicester would have sold three players in the top 10 most expensive premier league signings ever. (If Kante hadn't had a contract release he'd probably be in there as well).

[Babylon]

 

15 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Ricardo played RM a lot until Amartey got injured? 

Less to do with Amartey and more to do with Ricardo being moved to give him time to bed in. He made some horrible errors the first few games. 

[Pliskin]

I am very surprised some people are suggesting it’s good for the club. Is it not the ambition of the club to compete with top teams? 
 

What annoys me is every summer transfer window we hear the same old crap “none of our key players are for sale” so Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez, Maguire and now potentially Chillwell all leave..... Don’t come out and say things like this if it isn’t true, we’re constantly selling our best assets to bigger clubs, and one day it will undo us. As mentioned Chilly isn’t perfect, but he is probably better than what we could replace him with in the time we have, plus it’s another position we then need to worry about replacing. 
 

We are forever taking strides forwards, and then leaps backwards, we’re no different to Southampton these days, it was the aim of the club to break the mould after we won the PL, and consistently battle with the top teams, not sell them all of our assets. There’s no need for us to keep selling them, we don’t need to, especially to rival teams. We need to decide what we want as a club and stick with it, if we want to compete with the big clubs then we need to start to act like one and I’m not talking about spending millions, just retaining our best players whilst adding good young players to the mix. Or are we are satisfied with battling for Europa? It annoys me that one week Brendan is saying it would take a world record fee to take Chillwell away from the club, and then the papers are reporting differently. Doesn’t send out a good message. I understand every players have a price, but we frankly look a bit stupid, when we say they’re not for sale and then months later they’re gone. The bank may look healthy but we will have this constant battle to replace players we lose.  

[pazzerfox]

59 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

Funnily enough on your original thread 2.5 years a go I was gushing about Chilwell and had the opposite opinion of you and now again I have the opposite opinion of you. In the last 2.5 years I don't believe his game has moved on at all and I think once a player hits the 23/24 mark then you can't give them any excuse for potential. Of course there are exceptions like Vardy but I believe Chilwell is still the same player despite having another 2.5 years experience being surrounded by top players and top coaches.

 

It's the main reason I would sell him for top money as although I like many aspects of his game like his stamina, athleticism and his ability to travel with the ball long distances I still believe he's not improved significantly defensively and his crossing and delivery haven't improved. Luke Thomas looked much better with the ball in three games than Chilwell has all season.

 

I think if we do sell Chilwell for big money it's because of his reputation more than his ability. England's young left back, three assists in an England game, etc. I think if £65m was spent on him Lampard might be disappointed in what he bought two months down the line.

Couldn't agree more.  

[HybridFox]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Whatttttt???? I take it you haven't seen him often then. Jamal Lewis had such a bad season that Liverpool - yes Liverpool, the runaway PL champions, 2019 European champions etc - made a bid for him last week !!!!!! The inside story in the Norwich paper has more details: https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-liverpool-jamal-lewis-inside-story-revealed-1-6788110

also didn't Liverpool sign Andy Robertson after Hull got relegated? And us Maguire. doesn't always work out bad

[Haywood_6]

1 hour ago, Happy Fox said:

Jamaal Lewis is a prospect but he isn’t the finished deal, I would much rather we go for experience Alex Telles, Phillip Max etc if Chilwell leaves 

Typically we sign good prospects and try to improve them. Which is a solid recruitment policy to have. But I do wish we'd sign a finished article player sometimes. Alex Telles and Ricardo. Imagine that. We'd literally have two of the best fullbacks in the world