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urban.spaceman

Ben Chilwell

By urban.spaceman, in Transfer Talk

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honeybradger

honeybradger

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Do you think the owners genuinely think we can "compete at the very top" over a sustained period of time?

What does this even suggest - that we could be regular title contenders over the next 10-20 years?

Spurs, for example, are a much more established top flight club than us yet have been in 1 or 2 title races in living memory.

Arsenal and Manchester United haven't been close to the title for a while.

Even Manchester City finished 18pts off the champions this season - MUFC and Chelsea were 33pts adrift, Spurs 40 pts and Arsenal 43.

Look at what the established 'big six' can spend on wages and transfers compared to us.

Having ambition is one thing (and realistic ambition should be applauded) but I'd be very surprised to see us getting close to what we achieved in that magical 15/16 season.

I'm of a vintage where I still can't believe we're breaking into the top six and playing in Europe through league position.

Call it "loser mentality" or whatever the current cool phrase is but we need to deal in a certain amount of realism.

If we can challenge the top six (or even top four) on a regular/semi-regular basis and going deep in cups - before potentially building to something better - that's something we should look at first.

 

Selling Chilwell for 60-70m doesn't necessarily show a lack of ambition. It won't necessarily weaken us if we recruit well.

For example, we looked better defensively this season even after flogging Maguire for 80m.

Some of our fanbase suddenly seem to think we should be Barcelona and the turning up of noses at players from Burnley or Bournemouth.

 

If you aim for success and fail then we at least end up top 10, if you stop trying to show ambition as a club and flog your already established players in order to buy multiple bargain players, like southampton did, we can very quickly end up at the lower end of the table. It's a very dangerous mentality to think that we're better than other clubs in the transfermarket and will never make the wrong decisions, it's a very dangerous game to play and it only takes one transfer window of losing a key player and buying loads of duds with that money before we're in trouble. Even if you look at the maguire deal it wasnt the masterclass everyone makes it out to be, 50 mil of that 80 mil went into praet and perez, praet having an ok season and that's it really, perez ended up not suiting the role we bought him for. Considering how sketchy soyuncu looked in pre season and last season he easily might not have worked out the way he did and we would have been in trouble, contrast that to the pretty much assured success we would have had if maguire had stuck around and it makes you think if gaining praet/perez was worth the risk. If anything the best thing to come out of that transfer was that we upgraded maguire, not the money we got for him and how we used it.

 

Even if we dont get it we need to keep pushing for top4/top6 and the best way to do that is with known quantities rather than soyuncu/maguire gambles that might not work out as well as last time.

Edited by honeybradger
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Genesis1

Genesis1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Heymister2015 said:

Can’t remember schlupp having a bad game from Lb! Suited him really well! No idea what people are going on about! He was quality when played at left back.  

Agreed. That was the problem because he was also a decent winger and striker. In those cup games he looked like the next big thing. For sure a better option than Gray.

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Nicolo Barella

Nicolo Barella

Posted
Posted

If selling Chilwell means signing Jamaal Lewis, keep Chilwell. Lewis has had an absolutely atrocious season. I would only be happy with selling him if we either manage to sign someone who's shown some genuine quality at a high level, someone like Reguilon, Telles, Gaya or Angelino, or we signed someone who has just had a very promising season and has shown they have good attributes (Wijndal, Henry). 

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UpTheLeagueFox

UpTheLeagueFox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said:

If selling Chilwell means signing Jamaal Lewis, keep Chilwell.

Lewis has had an absolutely atrocious season. 

Whatttttt???? I take it you haven't seen him often then. Jamal Lewis had such a bad season that Liverpool - yes Liverpool, the runaway PL champions, 2019 European champions etc - made a bid for him last week !!!!!! The inside story in the Norwich paper has more details: https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-liverpool-jamal-lewis-inside-story-revealed-1-6788110

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Nicolo Barella

Nicolo Barella

Posted
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Whatttttt???? I take it you haven't seen him often then. Jamal Lewis had such a bad season that Liverpool - yes Liverpool, the runaway PL champions, 2019 European champions etc - made a bid for him last week !!!!!! The inside story in the Norwich paper has more details: https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-liverpool-jamal-lewis-inside-story-revealed-1-6788110

I've watched him a couple times. Constantly exposed defensively, very inconsistent offensively. Every Norwich fan I've spoken to says he performed poorly. Klopp may have wanted him, and maybe he could have made something of him. That doesn't guarantee that Brendan could do the same. He is a big gamble, and a very clear downgrade on Chilwell.

 

Edit: also, Klopp clearly didn't think he was worth Norwich's valuation of him, as he signed Tsimikas instead.

Edited by Nicolo Barella
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HankMarvin

HankMarvin

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I've watched him a couple times. Constantly exposed defensively, very inconsistent offensively. Every Norwich fan I've spoken to says he performed poorly. Klopp may have wanted him, and maybe he could have made something of him. That doesn't guarantee that Brendan could do the same. He is a big gamble, and a very clear downgrade on Chilwell.

 

Edit: also, Klopp clearly didn't think he was worth Norwich's valuation of him, as he signed Tsimikas instead.

Do you speak to a lot of Norwich fans then?

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fleckneymike

fleckneymike

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

fleckneymike on the wrong side of history here again! One went on to warm the bench at Palace the other an England regular and soon to be record fee for a full back!

 

You would think people like him would learn their lesson and stop having a dig at our talented young players but you can bet your bottom dollar as soon as luke thomas has a few bad games the same old idiots will be out in force. 

I completely agree that I and 40% of respondents to that poll thought that in Feb 2018 that Chilwell wasn’t much better than Schlupp at that point. His improvement in the 2 1/2 years since has been admirable and I definitely think he’ll be a huge loss and more difficult to replace than Maguire due to his style of play; I for one don’t want him sold. 
 

if you took great schadenfreude from that poll wait till you see what I wrote about Vardy back in 2014 or Pearson mk1. 

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smudger63

smudger63

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Do you speak to a lot of Norwich fans then?

The Norwich fans I know like Lewis, said he was great in their promotion season, but had a disappointing season in the premier league. Gets forward really well, but last season didn't have a great end product, and defensively poor, although they don't think he was helped by the tactics of Farke, which left him exposed. They reckon Norwich want 20 million, but 15 million will probably get him, which they think is probably a fair price given he has potential to get better.

Edited to say that they also didn't think that Liverpool were seriously in for Lewis and were just using him to get a better deal for Tsimikas.

Edited by smudger63
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UHDrive

UHDrive

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Chelve84 said:

OK then pal we will soon see then.

Anybody that thinks maguire money is still available is wrong thats gone and been invested etc.

Let's just think we have played with lack of depth at Cb and not replaced Maguire all season and the best we good get was Bennett.

Believe what you want..if you think it bs then fair enough.

Not being funny but you come across as rather fraudulent.

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snoopy87

snoopy87

Posted
Posted

If we're holding out for a world record fee and quite happy to keep the player should it not come, that to me would suggest we're not skint. I'm sorry, but if we're that screwed financially the first semi decent bid would have been accepted for risk of losing out on the money.

 

In the grand scheme of things, theres not too many clubs that have actually done any business yet, 95% of players are on holidays. I suspect next week we'll start to see some real movement 

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Sly

Sly

Posted
Posted

We have a shortlist of players for all positions, as do most clubs. The sports science / analysis / scouting team are responsible for this. 
 

People leave football clubs, it’s inevitable. 
 

Clubs get linked to players, largely due to having scouts in attendance to watch them. The player we replace him with, we’ll already have watched and largely have been linked to, or already have. 
 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Chelve84 said:

They banked on champs league and it didn't happen. I'm not speculating and funds are really tight.

 

We was linked with a lot of players before the restart some true and some not. 

We now have to sell to recruit. We have 2 strikers at this football club and BR has said he would like another one to partner vardy as another option.. for this to happen Kalechi has to leave yet keeping him would only leave us with 3 strikers.

Not a chance this club " banked " on something happening. We plan long term and at the start of last season the plan was to try and get in to Europe, they'd have loved CL football again but that would not have been what the short term finances of the club would have been based on. Plus we intended to spend the majority of the Maguire money last summer and didn't and the training ground was agreed before it looked like we were going to finish top 4.

 

The Maguire money might not still be available but people in the know such as John Percy said all of last summer we were going to spend big and that was without Maguire going and actually our net spend was minimal. We haven't suddenly ran in to trouble from bad planning, the CL money would have been a huge boost but as some have said we earnt £30m more for finishing 5th than we did in 2018/19 and we will get around £20-25m if we qualify from the group stages of the Europa League. 

 

Finances may well be tighter, like they will be for many clubs but your reasoning seems highly unlikely. 

 

I still think we will sell Chilwell, try and get a few million for Slimani and Ghezzal, try and offload Silva's wages for another year and get small fees for Amartey and Diabate. We may well still look to sell Gray for £10-15m. I think our net spend as always will be around £30m and you might be right, Iheanacho might be sold too. 

 

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The whole world smiles

The whole world smiles

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

I completely agree that I and 40% of respondents to that poll thought that in Feb 2018 that Chilwell wasn’t much better than Schlupp at that point. His improvement in the 2 1/2 years since has been admirable and I definitely think he’ll be a huge loss and more difficult to replace than Maguire due to his style of play; I for one don’t want him sold. 
 

if you took great schadenfreude from that poll wait till you see what I wrote about Vardy back in 2014 or Pearson mk1. 

Stop the press young talented footballer gets better with age! Who would have thought? 

 

Chilwell had just turned 21 when you did that poll and had played around 30 premier league games. Like I say I hope you and others will be more patient with young players breaking into the first team in the future but I won't hold my breath. 

 

Up the city. 

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Hales

Hales

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, GDesign_JRC said:

Now that's not true anymore 

 

That's just an article on paper talk with lots of gossip. It doesn't say anymore really than all the twitter chatter. Tomorrow is the start of the pre season so we will soon see if he is there or not! 

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lgfualol

lgfualol

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Whatttttt???? I take it you haven't seen him often then. Jamal Lewis had such a bad season that Liverpool - yes Liverpool, the runaway PL champions, 2019 European champions etc - made a bid for him last week !!!!!! The inside story in the Norwich paper has more details: https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-liverpool-jamal-lewis-inside-story-revealed-1-6788110

Klopp would have him for back up, maybe some cup games, whereas he'd be our first choice and I dont think he is good enough yet. A poor replacement for Chilwell could derail our season alone.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Definitely time to go to bed .........

Other than the middle. It, I agree with him.

 

He was good for us and he has consistently played well for Palace against us.

 

But he's nowhere near Chilwell.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Whatttttt???? I take it you haven't seen him often then. Jamal Lewis had such a bad season that Liverpool - yes Liverpool, the runaway PL champions, 2019 European champions etc - made a bid for him last week !!!!!! The inside story in the Norwich paper has more details: https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-liverpool-jamal-lewis-inside-story-revealed-1-6788110

Liverpool wanted him because he's a cheap left back that fills a homegrown quota spot with resale value.

 

He would go there to sit on their bench and then they'd sell him in two years time for profit.

 

I think he's been decent but I'd like us to be a bit more ambitious.

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