Coronavirus Thread

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Try reading Nineteen Eighty-Four. You'll come across part of that quotation, although I may have been guilty of embroidering it somewhat to fit the debate on here about totalitarianism.

 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Soup said:

I don't want to continuely keep putting a vaccine in me. I don't know exactly why but I don't. I should be allowed to make my own decisions. I've had one jab and I'll probably have another then I'll take a view at the end of the year and see how things are shaping up. If I can't genuinely do any fun stuff unless I have a 3rd and fourth jab then I'll have a decision to make.

 

You're a clever bloke no doubt but whatever you say im not suddenly goung to change how I feel. The mind is what it is

Nah, I'm not looking to convince you about anything here, I was genuinely curious, so thank you.

 

My own take is that we actually have far less control over our lives than we think and the way it pans out is dependent on factors from other people and outside our control more than we can know, so I'd just like it to keep going as long as possible and don't mind relying on outside help for that. But that's my own thoughts and by no means gospel.

[Guest Harrydc]

@FoxesDeb

 

To answer your question about who I speak to etc - I live with housemates who are all for the restrictions (lockdowns, masks, vaccinations etc) so the more they're down my throat about it all the more it makes me despise what's happening. I try my hardest to keep my thoughts to myself but that's sometimes difficult. But yes I agree, the more you read about your own ideologies, the more you get incorporated into them. You could say I've dug too deep into a 'rabbit hole'. 

 

I've lost friends over my thoughts and feelings, and have been told I'll be the cause of 'new varients' if I'm not vaccinated, and that anyone who doesn't take the vaccine is a 'scumbag'.

 

As for that logic, I can't understand - as I don't take the flu vaccine and have never caused 'new varients' of the flu. 

 

But whatever anyone tells me, I won't be getting the vaccine. Even if that means I have no social life ever again. 

 

That's how strongly I feel about it. 

 

As for your point about every world leader joining together for some huge 'conspiracy' - I doubt that.

 

I think it started off about a virus, and our government too a cautious step. However, I believe that now - it's no longer about a virus. Once a government gains extra control and power they very rarely hand it back.  

 

I've read a lot about 'the great reset' and the World Economic Forum (which is no conspiracy), however I don't want to set Line X off so I won't go into it.

I hope this answers your questions 🙂

[Jon the Hat]

3 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Nothing to do with it, it's raw data that counts.

Ah in that case it's fine because none of those 200k people got on a plane to the UK.  Sorted.

[yorkie1999]

38 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Ah in that case it's fine because none of those 200k people got on a plane to the UK.  Sorted.

No, but can you say that no-one who had come into contact with those 200,000 people didn't get on a plane? And don't forget, that's 200k in a day.

Edited 16 April 2021 by yorkie1999

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

@FoxesDeb

 

To answer your question about who I speak to etc - I live with housemates who are all for the restrictions (lockdowns, masks, vaccinations etc) so the more they're down my throat about it all the more it makes me despise what's happening. I try my hardest to keep my thoughts to myself but that's sometimes difficult. But yes I agree, the more you read about your own ideologies, the more you get incorporated into them. You could say I've dug too deep into a 'rabbit hole'. 

 

I've lost friends over my thoughts and feelings, and have been told I'll be the cause of 'new varients' if I'm not vaccinated, and that anyone who doesn't take the vaccine is a 'scumbag'.

 

As for that logic, I can't understand - as I don't take the flu vaccine and have never caused 'new varients' of the flu. 

 

But whatever anyone tells me, I won't be getting the vaccine. Even if that means I have no social life ever again. 

 

That's how strongly I feel about it. 

 

As for your point about every world leader joining together for some huge 'conspiracy' - I doubt that.

 

I think it started off about a virus, and our government too a cautious step. However, I believe that now - it's no longer about a virus. Once a government gains extra control and power they very rarely hand it back.  

 

I've read a lot about 'the great reset' and the World Economic Forum (which is no conspiracy), however I don't want to set Line X off so I won't go into it.

I hope this answers your questions 🙂

I think there are new variations of the flu regularly, how would you know if you were the host in which the mutation began or not?

 

Aside from that, I do support your right to not want or take the vaccine and agree it should be a personal preference.

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

 

'This is a disaster': Boris Johnson urged to act after cases of Indian 'double mutant' variant found in UK

 

when in according to reports it’s been here since February, media scaremongering at its finest again.

[KrefelderFox666]

12 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

 

'This is a disaster': Boris Johnson urged to act after cases of Indian 'double mutant' variant found in UK

 

when in according to reports it’s been here since February, media scaremongering at its finest again.

Probably because he is about to go on business to India (which I am not sure is all that essential at this point, be it "safe" or not).

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Looks like 2400 ish is the plateau for cases at the moment, which should be manageable with a 0.5% to 1% fatality rate. 

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, Harrydc said:

 

I've read a lot about 'the great reset' and the World Economic Forum (which is no conspiracy), however I don't want to set Line X off so I won't go into it.

I hope this answers your questions 🙂

You won't "set me off" Harry this is a forum, I am at liberty to reply (which you'll find wouldn't be the case if indeed we were living under totalitarian rule).  If however you make ill-informed, ignorant and actually irresponsible claims such as the ludicrous suggestion that "it has been scientifically proven that facemasks don't work" or "I don't think we're living in a totalitarian state, I know we're living in one", then yes I will be inclined to respond at length. 

 

Regarding "The Great Reset", of course it is not a conspiracy and no rational thinking individual would suppose that it was. However, like the UN Agenda 21, it has been framed as having sinister intent by largely gun toting far right US conspiracy theorists that fear reform and a perceived erosion of their 'rights'  and 'independence'- So your interpretation of what it actually involves is dependent upon your sources, your ability to objectively critically appraise the veracity of these and your susceptibility to baseless online conspiracy theory. The term derives from theme of the 50th annual meeting of the WEF and to quote Schwab himself "The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world". This means a reevaluation and revamping of all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions. towards a healthier, more equitable and prosperous future. Some countries have already used the COVID-19 crisis as an excuse to erode, undermine and deregulate environmental protections and enforcement. And frustrations over social ills such as rising inequality are growing. As @Buce reminded us this week, US billionaires’ combined wealth has increased markedly during the pandemic. These crises, exacerbated by COVID-19, if left unchecked will leave the world even less sustainable, less equal, and more fragile and vulnerable position. Piecemeal measures and ad hoc fixes in the short term will not be far reaching enough where our economic and social systems require the construction and rebuilding to the very foundations. The level of political will, reform, policy, social commitment, collaboration and ambition this necessitates is unprecedented and daunting but the vision is real. This is truly a multi-disciplinary and global endeavour galvanised by a worldwide crisis.

 

So you are absolutely correct, "no conspiracy". 

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Bit of a kick in the bollox for all those getting vaccines through darknet so they can get into concerts and stuff....

[Nalis]

8 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Bit of a kick in the bollox for all those getting vaccines through darknet so they can get into concerts and stuff....

'Vaccines! Anyone giving or receiving vaccines?'

[Strokes]

9 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Bit of a kick in the bollox for all those getting vaccines through darknet so they can get into concerts and stuff....

Not really, the end result is still the same.

[reynard]

17 hours ago, Soup said:

Yes I want exactly the same. 

 

I think deep down my fear is that we'll all have to be jabbed several times before we get out of this, if we ever will. It's taken me to my mid 40's to really get fit and healthy and the thought of outsourcing my immune system to a vaccine company fills me with dread.

May I ask if you ever go to a doctor and get prescribed medecine do you ask for the efficecy study of that medecine, do you ask when it was first employed, how many people may have died from taking it? I bet, like the rest of us, you don't. If you wanted to travel to a country that demanded innoculation against certain diseases would you take the vaccine or not travel? Presumably as a child you were vaccintated so you already have outsourced your immune system to a vaccine company.

I suspect your fear is well grounded. Just like people are vaccinated against flu with an evolving vaccine each year so, I suspect, will be the case with covid.

I'm not having a go at you and I understand your and other's concerns about this but life is about balancing risks and mitigating those risks. Right now, Covid seems to pose more of a risk to the health of society than the vaccines.

More people in the Uk probably die from choking on their breakfast or falling down the stairs each year than are currently dying from the effect (potential or real) of these vaccines.

Ultimately of course you can balance your dread by just not being vaccinated.

Personally I can't see any other way out of this than through mass vaccination.

[reynard]

On 15/04/2021 at 22:42, Harrydc said:

You really do speak in riddles dont you. 

 

A totalitarian state poses a high degree of control over public life. 

 

You're telling me that our government does not at this very moment in time control our life? 

 

What we can do. Where we can go. 

 

A totalitarian state uses surveillance within its society. 

 

Track and trace is just the start. Vaccine passports are next. Once they're incorporated, the social credit system is next. 

 

That's not even discussing the two tier society we will have of 'vaccinated' (compliant) and 'unvaccinated' (non compliant). 

 

Yet, my comment is up there with the most stupid in your eyes. 

 

 

 

I don't think a totalitarian state would be allowing elections to take place on 6th May where you can vote against candidates from the governing party without fear of reprisal or arrest etc.

[Nalis]

22 minutes ago, reynard said:

May I ask if you ever go to a doctor and get prescribed medecine do you ask for the efficecy study of that medecine, do you ask when it was first employed, how many people may have died from taking it? I bet, like the rest of us, you don't. If you wanted to travel to a country that demanded innoculation against certain diseases would you take the vaccine or not travel? Presumably as a child you were vaccintated so you already have outsourced your immune system to a vaccine company.

I suspect your fear is well grounded. Just like people are vaccinated against flu with an evolving vaccine each year so, I suspect, will be the case with covid.

I'm not having a go at you and I understand your and other's concerns about this but life is about balancing risks and mitigating those risks. Right now, Covid seems to pose more of a risk to the health of society than the vaccines.

More people in the Uk probably die from choking on their breakfast or falling down the stairs each year than are currently dying from the effect (potential or real) of these vaccines.

Ultimately of course you can balance your dread by just not being vaccinated.

Personally I can't see any other way out of this than through mass vaccination.

I suspect some who dont want to take the vaccine want others to take it so society can get out of this. Selfish.

[Paninistickers]

39 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I suspect some who dont want to take the vaccine want others to take it so society can get out of this. Selfish.

Sirry fella, but I detest this argument. The guilt trip. 

 

I'm now eligible. But I'm holding back. I'm not slowing anyone down....I'm letting those who are desperate for the vaccine go ahead of me. 

 

And I'll probably do the same as the next age brackets come on through. 

 

If, after all those who've had it I'm coerced or bullied into taking it via a vaccine passport, I no doubt will. Or, if genuinely the health of the nation rested on, say, a stubborn 20% who hadn't taken a jab and half of those were needed to finish off the virus...again I'd step forward.

 

I don't consider it selfish one bit.

 

 

[Buce]

 

A fascinating read, and more than a little worrying:

 

What are the new Covid variants and what do they mean for the pandemic?

 

From the moment public health officials started to track new variants of coronavirus, it became clear that the same mutations were cropping up time and again and making the virus more troublesome. What are these mutations, what do they do, and what do they mean for the pandemic?

What are mutations?

 

The genetic code of the coronavirus is held in about 30,000 letters of RNA, a molecule similar to DNA. When the virus infects human cells, the genetic code is copied to make new virus particles. But mistakes happen in the process and these copying errors become mutations in the new virus. Most mutations have little effect, while some will impair the virus and die out. But occasionally a mutation will benefit the virus, for example by making it latch on to human cells more effectively, or evade some of the immune defences the body builds after previous infection or vaccination.

When did coronavirus start to mutate?

The virus has been mutating from the start. On average, a single Sars-CoV-2 virus accumulates two single-letter mutations a month. The influenza virus mutates at about twice this rate. Many of the mutations that happened early on helped the coronavirus adapt to humans. One of the first mutations to go global is known as D614G, or Doug for short. This mutation arose early in the pandemic and by June 2020 it had spread around the world. The D614G mutation stabilises the spike proteins that enable the virus to latch on to human cells and infect them. (Variants without Doug are, naturally, called Douglas).

What other mutations are there?

New mutations emerge all the time, but scientists focus on those that have the potential to make the virus more problematic. One of the most common mutations is N501Y, known as Nelly to geneticists tracking the new variants. This mutation affects the 501st amino acid in the virus, swapping asparagine for another amino acid called tyrosine. This changes the shape of the spike protein in a way that helps the virus bind more tightly to human cells. One likely consequence is that it takes less virus to cause an infection, so the disease spreads more easily.

The mutation appears in at least three variants that are causing concern around the world: the fast-spreading B117 or 501YV1 variant first spotted in Kent; the B1351 or 501YV2 variant first found in South Africa; and the P1 or 501YV3 variant first seen in Brazil.

But “variants of concern” share other mutations, too. The B1351 and P1 variants both carry another spike mutation, K417N, the impact of which is not yet clear.

One of the most worrying mutations found so far is E484K, or Eeek. This also changes the spike protein, this time making it harder for some antibodies built up by vaccination or previous infection to latch on to the virus. Scientists fear that E484K-carrying variants could still spread in populations that have been hit hard by the virus or which have been highly vaccinated, hence the concern about the South African variant undoing the vaccination programme in the UK.

A hint that the mutation benefits the virus can be seen in the number of variants that now carry it. Geneticists have spotted E484K in the South African and Brazilian variants and others found in the UK, New York, Nigeria and most recently, Angola. In the UK, samples of the Kent variant spreading in the south-west have also evolved the E484K mutation, as has another variant circulating in Merseyside.

Why do the same mutations crop up?

 

Is vaccinating against Covid enough? What we can learn from Chile and Israel

 

Read more

The same mutations can arise by chance. But when variants around the world get a boost after acquiring several matching mutations (D614G, N501Y and E484K are all found in the Kent, South African and Brazilian variants) it may mean convergent evolution is at work. This happens when virus in different parts of the world finds the same way to adapt to evolutionary pressure.

It isn’t just viruses that adapt in this way. Convergent evolution is seen across the animal kingdom. For example, humans and domesticated animals have acquired similar mutations to thrive in the low oxygen conditions of the Tibetan plateau, the Andes and the Ethiopian highlands.

What is driving the virus’s evolution?

Some of the mutations are thought to help the virus adapt to its new human host. Other genetic changes, particularly those that emerged more recently, may have arisen to evade immunity in the population. It is hard to separate these out though because the same mutation can affect both aspects of the virus’s behaviour.

How will the virus evolve in the future?

No one can predict how the virus will evolve as vaccines are rolled out, but Oliver Pybus, professor of evolution and infectious disease at the University of Oxford, compares the situation to a game of chess. Right now, the virus may have only a small number of viable moves to adapt to the pressure it is under, causing the same mutations to arise time and again. But different options may open up for the virus as more people are protected by vaccines and new treatments reach the clinics.

There is good news ahead, though. Convergent evolution may make it easier to target updated vaccines at multiple new variants at once. The pace at which new variants emerge may have reached a peak as well: as infections start to fall around the world, the risk of new variants should drop too.

 

 

Edited 17 April 2021 by Buce

[reynard]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Sirry fella, but I detest this argument. The guilt trip. 

 

I'm now eligible. But I'm holding back. I'm not slowing anyone down....I'm letting those who are desperate for the vaccine go ahead of me. 

 

And I'll probably do the same as the next age brackets come on through. 

 

If, after all those who've had it I'm coerced or bullied into taking it via a vaccine passport, I no doubt will. Or, if genuinely the health of the nation rested on, say, a stubborn 20% who hadn't taken a jab and half of those were needed to finish off the virus...again I'd step forward.

 

I don't consider it selfish one bit.

 

 

I suppose the other side of this argument is where would be if 80% of the population thought this way?

Do you think the same about a driving licence or a passport to travel overseas? Pretty much the same principle involved.

[Paninistickers]

2 hours ago, reynard said:

I suppose the other side of this argument is where would be if 80% of the population thought this way?

Do you think the same about a driving licence or a passport to travel overseas? Pretty much the same principle involved.

But 80% dont see it that way. So why should I stand in the way of those who want the vaccine? 

 

They want it. I'd rather not. They get it. I'll bide my time. Everyone's a winner ....

 

Driving licence is proof of competency. No correlation between that and a jab. Passport is proof of ID, regardless of health, politics, criminality etc

Edited 17 April 2021 by Paninistickers

[Raj]

Had the Astrazeneca  jab earlier.

Didnt feel a thing except already just feel absolutely  knackered!!!

Think a sleep in the sun is on the cards!

[FoxesDeb]

7 minutes ago, Raj said:

Had the Astrazeneca  jab earlier.

Didnt feel a thing except already just feel absolutely  knackered!!!

Think a sleep in the sun is on the cards!

I've heard good things about having a nap afterwards, hopefully you can get a bit of sleep and be fine 

[Raj]

11 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

I've heard good things about having a nap afterwards, hopefully you can get a bit of sleep and be fine 

Took some paracetamol prior too as I've been told it helps.

Mrs has a dead arm but I'm just knackered.(Went for a run this morning so that probably didnt help!)

I've gotta say though the system at the Peepul centre is immensely  good and well organised and the volunteers were wonderful. Bravo to them all.

[Costock_Fox]

2 hours ago, Raj said:

Had the Astrazeneca  jab earlier.

Didnt feel a thing except already just feel absolutely  knackered!!!

Think a sleep in the sun is on the cards!

Give it a few hours and report back