The "do they mean us?" thread pt 3

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I dont think the offside was even that tight  people keep going on about it but before VAR the same media outlets would be giving the linesman all kinds of stick for missing that in a cup final. 

I actually wish that it hadn't been offside but the ref had made the wrong call and disallowed it. Would have been even sweeter justice for 1997. Never mind.

[TrickyTrev Benjamin]

Just reading the cov forum  They aren’t happy bunnies at all. Going mental at anyone saying congratulations Leicester!!! What I find the most funny about Coventry is that they’ll always be jealous of us and they’ll never be better then us. I do hate them still but find myself feeling more sorry for them nowadays. I really wanted them that season Birmingham knocked them out the cup. Been great for 6000 of their finest to travel down to witness a 5-6 goal thrashing. 
 

Remember that episode of the Simpson’s where Shelbyville steal the lemon tree from Springfield ? They genuinely are shelbyville.

[Jacnah]

53 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

I want us to be even more successful and get over the line here and there. I do not want us to EVER become like the Big Sux. I don’t think we will. 

We will. Its inevitable with the money and human nature. As fans adapt to success then they become more expectant, which to everybody else looks like self entitlement and you begin to draw in a certain type of fan (not supporter). We are not some special club, or special group of supporters to think we are immune.

 

Personally I like us just the way we are.

[norwichfox]

7 minutes ago, Jacnah said:

We will. Its inevitable with the money and human nature. As fans adapt to success then they become more expectant, which to everybody else looks like self entitlement and you begin to draw in a certain type of fan (not supporter). We are not some special club, or special group of supporters to think we are immune.

 

Personally I like us just the way we are.

This

[ARM1968]

28 minutes ago, Jacnah said:

We will. Its inevitable with the money and human nature. As fans adapt to success then they become more expectant, which to everybody else looks like self entitlement and you begin to draw in a certain type of fan (not supporter). We are not some special club, or special group of supporters to think we are immune.

 

Personally I like us just the way we are.

You mean, special?

[TrentFox]

Bored so switched to Sky Blues Talk to read their thread congratulating us on winning the cup. Wow! Perhaps they could rename their forum “Keyboard Warriors Without a Life and Lots of Anger Issues”?? They basically hate everyone. One guy even confessed to hating Coventry.  😳. I’m just assuming his literary level is low and he didn’t realise he was on. Cov Forum? 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

Just reading the cov forum  They aren’t happy bunnies at all. Going mental at anyone saying congratulations Leicester!!! What I find the most funny about Coventry is that they’ll always be jealous of us and they’ll never be better then us. I do hate them still but find myself feeling more sorry for them nowadays. I really wanted them that season Birmingham knocked them out the cup. Been great for 6000 of their finest to travel down to witness a 5-6 goal thrashing. 
 

Remember that episode of the Simpson’s where Shelbyville steal the lemon tree from Springfield ? They genuinely are shelbyville.

We’ve just taken the only argument they had to Leicester fans 

[los dedos]

16 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We’ve just taken the only argument they had to Leicester fans 

Before the Prem win Cov fans always maintained they were the more successful club . I always argued that 4 FA cup final appearances and 3 league cup wins trumped that . Now we've blown them out the water 🤣.

 

[tylesta]

2 minutes ago, los dedos said:

Before the Prem win Cov fans always maintained they were the more successful club . I always argued that 4 FA cup final appearances and 3 league cup wins trumped that . Now we've blown them out the water 🤣.

 

Was that while they was in league 2

[dayday]

1 hour ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

Just reading the cov forum  They aren’t happy bunnies at all. Going mental at anyone saying congratulations Leicester!!! What I find the most funny about Coventry is that they’ll always be jealous of us and they’ll never be better then us. I do hate them still but find myself feeling more sorry for them nowadays. I really wanted them that season Birmingham knocked them out the cup. Been great for 6000 of their finest to travel down to witness a 5-6 goal thrashing. 
 

Remember that episode of the Simpson’s where Shelbyville steal the lemon tree from Springfield ? They genuinely are shelbyville.

I see Hackney Fox is giving them loads 

[worth_the_wait]

3 hours ago, Livid said:

I don't have an issue with VAR and offside, to me it probably is the one area of the game where is black and white. Other areas where it's being used i'm open to debate.

 

Yes you can argue about the minutia of decisions, but if we had waited 52 years for that decision to go against us on Saturday, would you be happy and just willing to accept it. All this talk about killing the game etc that would have probably killed me!

 

 

I know what you're saying.  But I still hate VAR.   Absolutely detest it.
 
In the "pre VAR era" we would've accepted it, because there simply was no choice in the matter.  VAR hadn't been invented.   Or to be precise, the genie hadn't been let out of the bottle.
 
Just like we had to accept penalties given against us that never were - like Chelsea (FA Cup 1997), Swindon (Playoff final 1993).
 
But also the oppo had to accept decisions that went our way - like Portsmouth (Playoff Semi final 1993: Ormondroyd offside) and Derby (Playoff final 1994: Derby goalie fouled for our equaliser).    You can come up with another 100 of those from the last few decades.
 
It wasn't always fair, but at least you knew you could celebrate goals without them being chalked off a minute or two later.  No stewards enquiries.  You could react to what happened.   At the time.   

 

On Saturday, after going crazy for 60 seconds, I thought "oh sh*t, is that going to be ruled out for something".   
 
We were fortunate on Saturday, in that a major VAR decision went "our way" (so to speak).   If Perez's arm had been one inch further away from his body, or a different set of unaccountable nobodies holed up at Stockley Park had viewed it slightly differently, our goal could've been ruled out for handball.
 
Obviously, none of this matters today.  VAR is part of the current rules.  All teams abide by it.  And our name is on the FA Cup for ever.   ANd we're all very happy bunnies.
 
BUT make no mistake, in the future, VAR will sting us back badly in the dying moments of some absolutely crucial game.

 

[orangecity23]

Hold on a minute... Coventry city have a forum? Is that a collective thing where they are talking to each other by doing paintings on the side of a big cave or do they actually have electricity and running water there now? Good for them, sounds like they've really improved the place recently.

[Sly]

I’d personally like us to build a squad that is better than Manchester City. Then go on and win the Community Sheild, Premier League, Champions League, League Cup, FA Cup, Super Cup and World Cup in the same season. 
 

However, I’d like to do it in Leicester fashion. Buying players that are not £80,000,000 each! 

[dayday]

Taken From a Middlesbrough forum

Gibson O'Neill the Group holding company, holds the 100% ownership of Bulkhaul, Middelsbrough FC and Rockliffe, each as limited companies.  
Steve Gibson owns 75% and Mike O'Neill owns 25% of Gibson O'Neill. Broadly that means they own the operating companies within.
This includes the assets, but equally the liabilities.

They are both very wealthy men as a result and good luck to them both.
Had Steve not been so fanatical about Boro - and thought it a decent long term investment punt - then they both would be a lot better off without Boro, that much is indisputable.
Middlesbrough FC owe the parent Group £116m plus whatever they lose this season which is liable to be well in excess of £20m despite the reduction in wage bill, because of Covid.
Middlesbough FC's assets are outweighed by its liabilities (including the money owed to GO'N Group) by £86m (plus whatever we lose this season).
The Club as an entity is a complete financial basket case. 
If Steve (and Mike) gave the club away, whoever they gave it to would own all the assets, but would still owe Gibson O'Neill £116m plus this year's loss. They would still only own something that had book value of MINUS £86m (plus this year's loss)

Bulkhaul is so successful that the GO'N Group overall remains a solid operation. Effectively Bulkhaul covers the debt of MFC because Bulkhaul's positive value (reserves) enables it to and Bulkhaul profit refreshes/finances this.
The Nett Liability of MFC is actually covered by the huge nett Asset value of Bulkhaul (and a little by Rockliffe) within the Group.
GO'N's Balance Sheet would show £116m (plus) greater nett shareholder value if somebody would come in and buy the MFC equity £64m and assume the MFC Undertakings of £116m plus. I'm pretty sure Gibson would be delighted with this.
Nobody in their right mind would do this.

Leicester is no more attractive on the face of it than Middlesbrough as a club and certainly not as attractive on the face of it as a Leeds United, or a Newcastle United.
We have similar pulling power/population to draw from and are similarly distance from local rivals. We have similar crowds, stadiums etc etc.

Leicester got a magnificent investor in the Thai family. Investors who have hired better people to make better decisions.
Leicester have a nett asset value of £73m (£160m better than us)
They have double the equity in their club (injected legally by owners) and nearly all of their P&L balance deficit in the Balance Sheet is from last season and Covid where they lost over £60m.
They owe their Group equivalent £137m, so even more than MFC does. 
They also have Bank debt of £65m, which we do not.

Overall then what does this tell us.

1. Leicester have a richer owner who underwrites their business with Group support.
2. Leicester's owners have pumped equity into the club on a large scale and this makes the Club a genuine going concern.
3. Leicester's owner has appointed people who have made excellent decisions. They have recruited superbly, traded wisely and created a squad that has performed in the league like we never have and is worth an incredible amount of money not even reflected on the Books. They are transformed from being like us to being not like us at all.
4. Leicester's position is still fragile. A couple more seasons of financial results like the last one and their position will look rather different.

5. Steve Gibson on the one hand is the only reason that MFC is still playing. Without the financial strength that Bulkhaul provides, the model of guaranteeing the systemic book losses MFC makes every year outside the Premier league, would simply not be possible.
6. Steve Gibson COMPLETELY owns and controls the Club and makes every significant decision. This means who works for it, with what scope, under what strategy, with what budget. He makes all the calls. He is entitled to, but he does.
7. Steve can only look to himself as to why his decisions have taken Middlesbrough to the football and financial position they are in, while Leicester's decisions have taken them to theirs.

8. It is about money, of course it is. But it is about so much more than just money.

9. Of course there are clubs who are in worse positions than Boro. 
They may have the debt, but without the committed owner.
They may not have a big catchment area or passion and hence limited potential.
They may have no stadium, no training facilities, no assets whatsoever.
They may never be able to attract an owner who can see potential.
There are definitely clubs I would not swap with, but there are many examples of similar clubs far far better led. Leicester are just one.

10. For now, in the real world, Steve Gibson is stuck with us, as nobody else will assume the debt, let alone pay him for the privilege of assuming it from him. 
And equally, we are stuck with him, meaning there is nothing we can do about his catastrophic decision making since 2016, or what he will do from now on; or for that matter whether he "sells up", who to, or whether he injects equity into the club or not.
I make no apology for wishing passionately there was another way, but I just can't see it at the moment.

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

How do you quantify a big club?

Have another big club as your rival.

[Livid]

Moxleywolf not exactly our biggest fan 

 

https://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/leicester-city-v-us.489988/

[davieG]

Have KP pumped money into LCFC apart from writing off the original loan debt? 

 

We've had loans which they may have underwritten but I assume this has been paid back from revenues and player sales.

 

Have I missed something, am I being naïve?  

[Jimmy]

26 minutes ago, davieG said:

Have KP pumped money into LCFC apart from writing off the original loan debt? 

 

We've had loans which they may have underwritten but I assume this has been paid back from revenues and player sales.

 

Have I missed something, am I being naïve?  

I was thinking the same thing, seems like a bunch of jealous fans making assumptions

[brucey]

 

[Koke]

1 hour ago, dayday said:

Taken From a Middlesbrough forum

Gibson O'Neill the Group holding company, holds the 100% ownership of Bulkhaul, Middelsbrough FC and Rockliffe, each as limited companies.  
Steve Gibson owns 75% and Mike O'Neill owns 25% of Gibson O'Neill. Broadly that means they own the operating companies within.
This includes the assets, but equally the liabilities.

They are both very wealthy men as a result and good luck to them both.
Had Steve not been so fanatical about Boro - and thought it a decent long term investment punt - then they both would be a lot better off without Boro, that much is indisputable.
Middlesbrough FC owe the parent Group £116m plus whatever they lose this season which is liable to be well in excess of £20m despite the reduction in wage bill, because of Covid.
Middlesbough FC's assets are outweighed by its liabilities (including the money owed to GO'N Group) by £86m (plus whatever we lose this season).
The Club as an entity is a complete financial basket case. 
If Steve (and Mike) gave the club away, whoever they gave it to would own all the assets, but would still owe Gibson O'Neill £116m plus this year's loss. They would still only own something that had book value of MINUS £86m (plus this year's loss)

Bulkhaul is so successful that the GO'N Group overall remains a solid operation. Effectively Bulkhaul covers the debt of MFC because Bulkhaul's positive value (reserves) enables it to and Bulkhaul profit refreshes/finances this.
The Nett Liability of MFC is actually covered by the huge nett Asset value of Bulkhaul (and a little by Rockliffe) within the Group.
GO'N's Balance Sheet would show £116m (plus) greater nett shareholder value if somebody would come in and buy the MFC equity £64m and assume the MFC Undertakings of £116m plus. I'm pretty sure Gibson would be delighted with this.
Nobody in their right mind would do this.

Leicester is no more attractive on the face of it than Middlesbrough as a club and certainly not as attractive on the face of it as a Leeds United, or a Newcastle United.
We have similar pulling power/population to draw from and are similarly distance from local rivals. We have similar crowds, stadiums etc etc.

Leicester got a magnificent investor in the Thai family. Investors who have hired better people to make better decisions.
Leicester have a nett asset value of £73m (£160m better than us)
They have double the equity in their club (injected legally by owners) and nearly all of their P&L balance deficit in the Balance Sheet is from last season and Covid where they lost over £60m.
They owe their Group equivalent £137m, so even more than MFC does. 
They also have Bank debt of £65m, which we do not.

Overall then what does this tell us.

1. Leicester have a richer owner who underwrites their business with Group support.
2. Leicester's owners have pumped equity into the club on a large scale and this makes the Club a genuine going concern.
3. Leicester's owner has appointed people who have made excellent decisions. They have recruited superbly, traded wisely and created a squad that has performed in the league like we never have and is worth an incredible amount of money not even reflected on the Books. They are transformed from being like us to being not like us at all.
4. Leicester's position is still fragile. A couple more seasons of financial results like the last one and their position will look rather different.

5. Steve Gibson on the one hand is the only reason that MFC is still playing. Without the financial strength that Bulkhaul provides, the model of guaranteeing the systemic book losses MFC makes every year outside the Premier league, would simply not be possible.
6. Steve Gibson COMPLETELY owns and controls the Club and makes every significant decision. This means who works for it, with what scope, under what strategy, with what budget. He makes all the calls. He is entitled to, but he does.
7. Steve can only look to himself as to why his decisions have taken Middlesbrough to the football and financial position they are in, while Leicester's decisions have taken them to theirs.

8. It is about money, of course it is. But it is about so much more than just money.

9. Of course there are clubs who are in worse positions than Boro. 
They may have the debt, but without the committed owner.
They may not have a big catchment area or passion and hence limited potential.
They may have no stadium, no training facilities, no assets whatsoever.
They may never be able to attract an owner who can see potential.
There are definitely clubs I would not swap with, but there are many examples of similar clubs far far better led. Leicester are just one.

10. For now, in the real world, Steve Gibson is stuck with us, as nobody else will assume the debt, let alone pay him for the privilege of assuming it from him. 
And equally, we are stuck with him, meaning there is nothing we can do about his catastrophic decision making since 2016, or what he will do from now on; or for that matter whether he "sells up", who to, or whether he injects equity into the club or not.
I make no apology for wishing passionately there was another way, but I just can't see it at the moment.

 

Link to that forum?

[dayday]

4 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

Link to that forum?

It’s on there fmttm forum page 2, carnt do the link

[Jacnah]

1 hour ago, Livid said:

Moxleywolf not exactly our biggest fan 

 

https://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/leicester-city-v-us.489988/

A quote from somebody on that Wolves thread

 

"If you could list all the clubs in order that other fans of the 92 clubs (excluding the sky 6) look at in envy and think ‘I wish that could be us one day’ Leicester would be top"

 

Its hard to argue with that perspective right now and we would all do well to remember it when the odd game goes badly

[urban.spaceman]

20 hours ago, Livid said:

Moxleywolf not exactly our biggest fan 

 

https://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/leicester-city-v-us.489988/

What did we do?!

 

[Manini]

Say what you want about Cov and their fans right, at least they acknowledge the rivalry. The “we’re not even rivals” schtik from Derby and Forest is just weird and a little bit boring. Cov hate us, we hate them. It’s how it should be. 

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Manini said:

Say what you want about Cov and their fans right, at least they acknowledge the rivalry. The “we’re not even rivals” schtik from Derby and Forest is just weird and a little bit boring. Cov hate us, we hate them. It’s how it should be. 

they may do now but they used to do what Forest and Derby claiming they only hated Villa