Europa League: v Spartak Moscow (H) Pre-Match Thread

[Tanya]

The thought of Cags and Vestergaard as our back two fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, Tanya said:

The thought of Cags and Vestergaard as our back two fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

Honestly rather throw Ben Nelson in in the blind hope he's more reliable. On the ball he is exceptional.

[mozartfox]

What has happened to Benks?  Has he had both legs amputated?  He must be worth a try when you consider other options -surely?

[Sharpe's Fox]

19 minutes ago, Tanya said:

The thought of Cags and Vestergaard as our back two fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

Can we give them both ear pieces with Jonny Evans in the stands on the other end of the line?

[Pliskin]

Apparently we’ve had a bug break out in the camp? 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Apparently we’ve had a bug break out in the camp? 

A page or two back

 

as of yesterday was Barnes and madders (from those available) 

 

by today it could be more - wonder if it’s come from the arsenal camp (they had it last week) 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

He isn't shown as a 'specialist', only Stowell is amongst the others? He doesn't seem very specialist at the moment if defensive because even with Evans and Soyuncu, they're all over the sodding place at set peices and have been for a long while. He must have been on a long holiday 😆

...I would imagine that there would be a crossover in respect of the defence coach and set piece "specialist "!!!

  The Defence Coach focusing on positioning, reading the game, using your body to shield and maintaining the backline.

  The Set Piece Coach would deal with the initial style agreed, in the case  of defending, Zonal or man for man. Zonal would be dictated more by the players in their ability to disrupt but they are at the mercy of the opposition as they have already shown their hand. Man for man also relies on disruption but the flexibility it gives puts more control into our own hands.

  The most important thing for me, that a Set Piece Coach could bring, would be innovation in the oppositions box  as opposed to our repetitive attempts which bares little fruit.

 

[StanSP]

Can people stop relying on Benkovic as some sort of saviour to our defensive woes

 

He's quite clearly not going to play. That in itself must speak volumes that he can't even get in to this defence. He's not the answer and it's not worth trying. 

[filbertway]

If we do actually fail to comfortably win this game tonight I want Rodgers and all his staff put in stocks and fans given rotten tomatoes.

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Can people stop relying on Benkovic as some sort of saviour to our defensive woes

 

He's quite clearly not going to play. That in itself must speak volumes that he can't even get in to this defence. He's not the answer and it's not worth trying. 

We just don't know do we in fairness. Rodgers seemed to have a similar attitude of not trusting Iheanacho and Armarty until he absolutely had to because of injuries. Iheanacho's eventual introduction however speaks for itself and I'd far sooner see Armarty at centre half than the hapless experiments with Castagne and Ndidi. Castagne was hopeless there with nothing in his career to say he could do it and the use of Ndidi massively weakened our midfield at the time.

[iancognito]

5 minutes ago, filbertway said:

If we do actually fail to comfortably win this game tonight I want Rodgers and all his staff put in stocks and fans given rotten tomatoes.

 

 

I'd like us to actually turn up with the attitude that we have to earn the victory rather than just turn up expecting to win. We're getting that Puel trait back of only playing half a game. Too often not starting with the right tempo (intensiteee) and not pressing high enough.early enough. Can't keep starting games slow out of the blocks and the manager can't keep using it as an excuse without shouldering the blame.

And to be honest whether he picks Big Jan, Amartey, Cags or whoever at the back they should have enough to turn these over with the right attitude.

[messerschmitt]

2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

If you watched him at the weekend against Arsenal you would be fairly right in the first half when played as a wing back with little or no help or cover defensively against a lively attack and midfield. The whole of the back 5 were poor not just him.

 

He improved massively in the second half and was far more comfortable in the back 4. As for going forward then, I think you'll find he was considerably more effective than the experienced Castagne on the right, he even managed to get a decent shot on goal.

 

Castagne, Ricardo, Bertrand and Thomas have all been quite poor when asked to perform wing back duties by Rodgers. All are very decent fullbacks and excell as attacking forces with players in front of them. Thomas and Barnes particularly work well together I think. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. People seem to think a full back and a wing back almost the same. A full back gets forward when the can attack, sometimes there's not much opportunity.

A wing back has to get forward and be prepared to take players on. If they don't you have no attack down that wing. A wing back has to be like a winger and not just a defender.

We really haven't got any wing backs in out squad. JJ and Ricardo would be the nearest. Barnes could be a good one in the future if he could learn the defensive side. Probably why we were looking at Gosens last summer. He's injured at the momont but has played 13 times this season with 2 goals and 4 assists. Take a look at our statistics for full backs playing as wing backs.

[filbertway]

23 minutes ago, iancognito said:

I'd like us to actually turn up with the attitude that we have to earn the victory rather than just turn up expecting to win. We're getting that Puel trait back of only playing half a game. Too often not starting with the right tempo (intensiteee) and not pressing high enough.early enough. Can't keep starting games slow out of the blocks and the manager can't keep using it as an excuse without shouldering the blame.

And to be honest whether he picks Big Jan, Amartey, Cags or whoever at the back they should have enough to turn these over with the right attitude.

Agreed, we should be going out there to outrun and win our individual battles. Do that and the quality will see us beat these. These are poorer than Sheff Utd and WBA who we put to the sword last season. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to kill this game off in the first half with the right attitude.

 

Any combination of defence is going to be far superior to the opposition, even though people like to make out that Rodgers is working with a bunch of championship standard defenders.

 

I can't remember the last time we went into a game against any, never mind just inferior, opposition with the mindset that we absolutely want to try and pummel them from the off.

[Foxy-Lady]

20 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Who's he playing ahead of and in which games? Play him tomorrow night and it has to be at the expense of a Soumare / Maddison or Tielemans - last time that happened he played really poorly against Warsaw.....play him Sunday in an important match that we really need to win? I can't see it. I don't understand where these chances are going to come from - it's a results business and his last outing suggested that Hamza should be ahead of him.

 

We can't afford to just give him chances with how the season's going - he needs to prove he can do it against lesser opposition first, and so far hasn't.

So why do you advocate that Bertrand and Vestagaard should continue to be given chances just because they were once Internationals??

 

I dont share your view on the KDH subject but i do respect your right to an opinion. 

But i absolutely don't agree with the flawed logic that just because someone was "once and international" they are more worthy of a start than someone who hasn't yet established himself.  If they are playing shit then they are no more worthy of a start than anyone else who is playing shit....or someone who is yet to be given a proper opportunity

 

(PS  didnt Carlton Palmer & Geoff Thomas once play International football??   Clealry Not everyone who plays international football is a world beater....!

 

[StanSP]

29 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

We just don't know do we in fairness. Rodgers seemed to have a similar attitude of not trusting Iheanacho and Armarty until he absolutely had to because of injuries. Iheanacho's eventual introduction however speaks for itself and I'd far sooner see Armarty at centre half than the hapless experiments with Castagne and Ndidi. Castagne was hopeless there with nothing in his career to say he could do it and the use of Ndidi massively weakened our midfield at the time.

But even when we were ridiculously short he still wasn't getting a look in. 

 

Agree about Ndidi and using Amartey instead. But the fact is Benkovic isn't playing for a reason, and that reason must be either because he's simply not good enough or he's just not fit or physical enough, or a combination of both. 

[Foxxed]

1 minute ago, Foxy-Lady said:

but i do respect your right to an opinion. 

 

[Foxxed]

I hope Daka hasn’t made too many friends and got the sickness bug. I’m counting on him to score five or six this time.

[SixtiesFox]

Rodgers likes to start off slow sitting back to establish a firm platform and then turn the screw. When will he wake up?! Start fast, get on the front foot and hit them with everything we've got from the off and they'll collapse. The old adage that 'attack is the best form of defence' couldn't be more accurate given that, at the moment, we simply cannot defend.   

[volpeazzurro]

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

But even when we were ridiculously short he still wasn't getting a look in. 

 

Agree about Ndidi and using Amartey instead. But the fact is Benkovic isn't playing for a reason, and that reason must be either because he's simply not good enough or he's just not fit or physical enough, or a combination of both. 

Yes, you do tend to feel that there's more to this story than meets the eye because although we may see the Scottish Premiership as of a much lower standard than the English, he nevertheless appeared to excel there. On the surface, if was able to achieve that standard you'd have thought him as being reasonably capable and be given a chance in domestic cup competitions. 

[Scanchez]

1 hour ago, Tanya said:

The thought of Cags and Vestergaard as our back two fills me with an overwhelming sense of dread.

As well it should.

[sm1]

14 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I hope Daka hasn’t made too many friends and got the sickness bug. I’m counting on him to score five or six this time.

He does do that face mask impression when he's scores.

That may save him.😁

[Buce]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

A page or two back

 

as of yesterday was Barnes and madders (from those available) 

 

by today it could be more - wonder if it’s come from the arsenal camp (they had it last week) 

 

I should think not.

 

We practiced social distancing all fvcking night.

 

 

[iancognito]

34 minutes ago, SixtiesFox said:

Rodgers likes to start off slow sitting back to establish a firm platform and then turn the screw. When will he wake up?! Start fast, get on the front foot and hit them with everything we've got from the off and they'll collapse. The old adage that 'attack is the best form of defence' couldn't be more accurate given that, at the moment, we simply cannot defend.   

And yet every interview he says the opposite. "We didn't get the tempo right, we didn't get our press right etc etc"

Even with injuries, we should be bossing this group. Napoli should have been the only real test. With the right attitude and players knowing they have to stamp their authority on it from the off, Spartak should be over by half time but we've all seen too many games this season where we aren't earning the right to win, just believing we can play like it's the training ground and still get a result.

[gw_leics772]

21 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Man United also have a zonal marking system at set pieces and are equally bad at it.

 

On paper there is nothing wrong with the system and it can work effectively. You have a clear structure and defend your zone, whereas with man-orientated systems, it can be chaotic and often times it's easier for people to get free of their man with the mess that is going on.

 

But we've been awful at set pieces for a long time now, especially defensively and adding Soumare and Vestergaard hasn't improved it and I would favour a different setup personally. 

 

All that said even in 15/16 we conceded a lot of goals to set pieces till about Christmas time. Then something changed, but I don't think it had anything to do with the system we used, we just seemed to have better concentration. It's also possible as others have mentioned in the past, that having Mahrez and Vardy standing off corners for the counter attack meant that teams deliberately didn't over commit on them against us. So maybe that's something we should look to be doing because teams target Vardy on our defensive corners because of his height, and have been getting results from it.

That end bit about leaving player(s) forward. Wtf is vardy doing in our penalty box!

[Chocolate Teapot]

59 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

So why do you advocate that Bertrand and Vestagaard should continue to be given chances just because they were once Internationals??

 

I dont share your view on the KDH subject but i do respect your right to an opinion. 

But i absolutely don't agree with the flawed logic that just because someone was "once and international" they are more worthy of a start than someone who hasn't yet established himself.  If they are playing shit then they are no more worthy of a start than anyone else who is playing shit....or someone who is yet to be given a proper opportunity

 

(PS  didnt Carlton Palmer & Geoff Thomas once play International football??   Clealry Not everyone who plays international football is a world beater....!

 

If we were missing youri and madders he'd start - we're missing players at the back hence why they're getting opportunities. KDH is a fair way off our first 4 midfielders and even then I've seen more from Hamza this year.

 

We also need to prevent more and Cags needs a rest. Thomas vs bertrand is much of a muchness so far this year.

 

My point is if vestergaard and Bertrand can't even do it against Moscow then there's literally no point in them being here at all. Additionally vestergaard has been impressive for Denmark alongside a more experienced defender.