Daka

[RobHawk]

If Andy king isn't a club legend, vardy aside, I don't know who is. 

 

The club legend I looked up to as a kid was walshy, and then muzzy, but neither were part of half of what kingy or Sharkey were. For me they are club legends. 

 

Ngolo was an incredible player for us the title winning season, but he's not a club legend for me, he has no love or affinity for the club and ****ed off at the first chance. 

[Finnegan]

19 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

If Andy king isn't a club legend, vardy aside, I don't know who is. 

 

The club legend I looked up to as a kid was walshy, and then muzzy, but neither were part of half of what kingy or Sharkey were. For me they are club legends. 

 

Ngolo was an incredible player for us the title winning season, but he's not a club legend for me, he has no love or affinity for the club and ****ed off at the first chance. 

 

I mean look the entire thing is completely subjective semantics isn't it but personally, yes, as somebody asked a few posts back - I do absolutely think a club should and does only a few genuine legends per generation. Anything beyond that and you're just watering down the term and over using it. 

 

Andy King for me is the dictionary definition of a cult hero. He's a player who is enormously popular with the fan base (hence some of the very strong reactions to what people perceive to be me hating on him, which I disagree with. I love Kingy) but whose popularity significantly outweighs his talent and impact on the pitch. 

 

However much I like Andy King, I'm sorry I roll my eyes every time one of you desperately point out his trophy cabinet to justify his legend status. You know absolutely full well that if he wasn't in the Premier League and Championship winning squads that we'd have won those things anyway. His playing time was fairly low in the Championship and nearly non existent in the Prem. Yes, I'm sure you can remember the odd time he came off the bench in a key win and did OK but let's be realistic. Compared to Vards, Kasper and Wes he's just a footnote in that story. 

 

If you take sentiment out of it you've got an average player who was effective in League One and in our first season back in the Championship and then faded from prominence. If you take sentiment out of it and you don't still have a player who was absolutely essential to the success of that era, you don't have a club legend you have a cult hero. 

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It still makes him one of our absolutely most beloved and I'm not trying to take that away from him. I'm just saying we very much over use the word "legend." 

 

All of you moaning that I'm disrespecting King, frankly, to claim King has had the same impact at the club that Vards, Wes or Kasper has had and deserves the same label is disrespecting three of the best players in our history. 

 

Now before this gets out of hand, can we all come together, join as one, sing Kumbaya and agree Kelechi Iheanacho isn't a club legend. 

 

Edited 25 January by Finnegan

[Sampson]

24 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

All of you moaning that I'm disrespecting King, frankly, to claim King has had the same impact at the club that Vards, Wes or Kasper has had and deserves the same label is disrespecting three of the best players in our history. 

 

 

Thats not a very coherent argument though. You’re inventing a hierarchy and idea of respect that doesn’t exist and no one uses in real life. No one is “disrespected” by calling by calling an extremely influential and memorable figure a legend because they aren’t amongst the very very 2 or 3 most elite of memorable and influential figures, there’s never been a hierarchy or grouping involved in calling people “legend” or “cult hero”, they’re just terms used to indicate notoriety, they’ve never been used to mean terms of the absolute most elite level of notoriety. “Legend” has never been used as a way to indicate an elite group of people, it’s just about having fame, influence and notoriety. 
 

You don’t disrespect Beethoven by calling Giorgio Moroder, Sam Cooke or Woody Guthrie a musical legend because they aren’t in the same category of musical and cultural influence and innovation as Beethoven. You don’t disrespect Pele, Maradona or Messi by calling Michel Platini or Zico footballing legends because they aren’t in the same group of level of footballer.
 

King and Albrighton are objectively and unquestionably amongst the most notorious and memorable players in the clubs history, just because they’re not Vardy or Arthur Chandler doesn’t make them not a legend, and neither is it disrespectful to Vardy or Chandler in calling them that. 

Edited 25 January by Sampson

[Finnegan]

18 minutes ago, Sampson said:

King and Albrighton are objectively and unquestionably amongst the most notorious and memorable players in the clubs history

 

Now maybe through a lens of extreme recency bias and the emotional attachment that foxestalk's core demographic has to them. 

 

But King is memorable for the amount of time he stuck around, as an ever present, not because of great footballing moments. That's the sort of thing that gets forgotten. When people look back in twenty or thirty years and remember Vardy's 11, Kasper and Wes lifting trophies, etc, what do you think they'll look back and remember Andy King for? 

 

The average Leicester fan couldn't describe Chandler or Rowley or tell you anything about how they played, they just quote their numbers.

 

I dunno, maybe that'll help King. Maybe people will still be repeating the fact he won League One, the Championship and the Prem and it'll be the opposite - history will forget how little involvement he had in 2/3rds of those achievements. 

 

[tylesta]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Now maybe through a lens of extreme recency bias and the emotional attachment that foxestalk's core demographic has to them. 

 

But King is memorable for the amount of time he stuck around, as an ever present, not because of great footballing moments. That's the sort of thing that gets forgotten. When people look back in twenty or thirty years and remember Vardy's 11, Kasper and Wes lifting trophies, etc, what do you think they'll look back and remember Andy King for? 

 

The average Leicester fan couldn't describe Chandler or Rowley or tell you anything about how they played, they just quote their numbers.

 

I dunno, maybe that'll help King. Maybe people will still be repeating the fact he won League One, the Championship and the Prem and it'll be the opposite - history will forget how little involvement he had in 2/3rds of those achievements. 

 

Not many other players will win league one, championship and premier league with the same club. 

[dmayne7]

42 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean look the entire thing is completely subjective semantics isn't it but personally, yes, as somebody asked a few posts back - I do absolutely think a club should and does only a few genuine legends per generation. Anything beyond that and you're just watering down the term and over using it. 

 

Andy King for me is the dictionary definition of a cult hero. He's a player who is enormously popular with the fan base (hence some of the very strong reactions to what people perceive to be me hating on him, which I disagree with. I love Kingy) but whose popularity significantly outweighs his talent and impact on the pitch. 

 

However much I like Andy King, I'm sorry I roll my eyes every time one of you desperately point out his trophy cabinet to justify his legend status. You know absolutely full well that if he wasn't in the Premier League and Championship winning squads that we'd have won those things anyway. His playing time was fairly low in the Championship and nearly non existent in the Prem. Yes, I'm sure you can remember the odd time he came off the bench in a key win and did OK but let's be realistic. Compared to Vards, Kasper and Wes he's just a footnote in that story. 

 

If you take sentiment out of it you've got an average player who was effective in League One and in our first season back in the Championship and then faded from prominence. If you take sentiment out of it and you don't still have a player who was absolutely essential to the success of that era, you don't have a club legend you have a cult hero. 

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It still makes him one of our absolutely most beloved and I'm not trying to take that away from him. I'm just saying we very much over use the word "legend." 

 

All of you moaning that I'm disrespecting King, frankly, to claim King has had the same impact at the club that Vards, Wes or Kasper has had and deserves the same label is disrespecting three of the best players in our history. 

 

Now before this gets out of hand, can we all come together, join as one, sing Kumbaya and agree Kelechi Iheanacho isn't a club legend. 

 

But a legend of the club isn't just reserved for the very best players but also for those who are synonymous with club, their contribution over time, the longevity etc. Over a decade with nearly 400 appearances across 3 divisions; winning all of them is a pretty legendary achievement and contribution.

 

You mention his contribution but even if not a starter in some of those teams, he still played a key role as the next in line. And you can argue without somebody of his character with the connection to the club, would those things have been possible? Not to mention he was key in us avoiding the drop so by your metrics, we don't win the league without him 

 

Cult status is for those guys who were loved for their character more than anything else after a couple of years; guys like Wasilewski. You can't be part of the incredible journey from start to end having captained the team along the way and being considered a 'cult hero'. That is a bit disrespectful, whether you meant it or not.

 

And you say we'd have won those things without him but would we? He was miles ahead of Inler for example who would have stepped into the team. And how many of those players were truly irreplaceable to us? Vardy, Kante, Mahrez and Kasper? The others were all phenomenal but you can't tell me that we couldn't have got players of an equal or better calibre in those positions. It was all about them peaking at the right time. So by that metric, Wes definitely isn't a legend as he was replaceable and if anything he almost cost us the FA Cup when he came on the pitch! And that's a ridiculous statement to make because it was about his contribution to the club in that title winning season and over the years prior and after it.

 

Ultimately, there is no criteria for what a legend is. It would make sense that it's a balance between ability, longevity and contribution to the club. I'm pretty comfortable that Andy King is a club legend based on that.

[Greg2607]

It's a difficult one with Andy King isn't it... because ultimately, he is the highest scoring midfielder in our history.  In some ways, that alone makes him a club legend.  until that record is broken, he will always come up in the discussion. 

 

But as a 41 year old man, I've had loads of midfielders that I prefered to Andy King.  Izzet and Lennon for a start.   

 

King though, made the absolute best of his abilities, he was Leicester City through and through and none of us ever questioned his commitment to the club. 

 

He possibly sneaks in as a legend on stats alone, but not on absolute ability.  

[Sampson]

33 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Now maybe through a lens of extreme recency bias and the emotional attachment that foxestalk's core demographic has to them. 

 

But King is memorable for the amount of time he stuck around, as an ever present, not because of great footballing moments. That's the sort of thing that gets forgotten. When people look back in twenty or thirty years and remember Vardy's 11, Kasper and Wes lifting trophies, etc, what do you think they'll look back and remember Andy King for? 

 

The average Leicester fan couldn't describe Chandler or Rowley or tell you anything about how they played, they just quote their numbers.

 

I dunno, maybe that'll help King. Maybe people will still be repeating the fact he won League One, the Championship and the Prem and it'll be the opposite - history will forget how little involvement he had in 2/3rds of those achievements. 

 

I mean you’ve answered your own question there. King will be remembered because he’s our top scoring midfielder of all time and for his incredible achievement of winning all too 3 divisions with the same club. Something no other player will repeat. Albrighton will be remembered for scoring 2 of the biggest and most memorable goaks in the clubs history in our CL run and for playing over 300 times for the club. Those don’t get forgotten at all.

 

Steve Walsh is a good example because in reality he had one good top flight season in 96/97 for us before becoming a more of a squad player under ONeill after that (and he was injured/not first choice even when he was fit in Little/McGhee’s PL season) and was largely just a very good second tier defender for us in his time here. He probably was not in the top 50 best players in the clubs history in terms of actual talent and ability but he gets remembered as a club legend due it his commitment, longevity and iconic moments vs Derby in a second tier playoff final (which wasn’t really a big thing to win in the context of our whole history).
 

Izzet too was also never considered our best or most important player under O’Neill and got relegated twice, the 01-02 season he was especially awful and looked like he couldn’t be bothered and got lots of stick at the time, he only started to get called our most important player during the Micky Adams era where we weren’t even really good enough to be in the PL and we’re probably a weaker side than we are now, let alone than we were between 14-21.

 

The reality it the poor performances get forgotten too and nostalgia builds players up. I don’t really buy the recency bias argument when we’re talking about comfortably the clubs most successful ever era. I personally think the opposite is true and people really overrate the Bloomfield and O’Neill era players in comparison to the 2014-21 players out of nostalgia and because they’ve forgotten all those average performances in favour of the good ones.

 

Edited 25 January by Sampson

[Nod.E]

It's a difficult one with Kingy. He was with us for years, scoring goals for fun and got promoted through the leagues. 

 

On paper, undoubtedly a club legend.

 

I think where the waters are muddied is that as a character, he comes across as one of life's Gareth Southgates. 

 

Nothing wrong with that, but he's a very unremarkable personality.

 

Should that matter? Probably not. I feel if he had the personality of Vardy this wouldn't even be a debate.

[PhillippaT]

Is this still the Daka thread?  

[Raj]

1 minute ago, PhillippaT said:

Is this still the Daka thread?  

Think its now about club legends, which is apt with Daka!!

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Good to have him back early, good to see Zambian Facebook humbled. 

 

Good all around!

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

Is this still the Daka thread?  

 

Well Patson Daka is a definite future club legend. 

 

👀

[PhillippaT]

25 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Well Patson Daka is a definite future club legend. 

 

👀

Let's hope he proves you right  

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Thats not a very coherent argument though. You’re inventing a hierarchy and idea of respect that doesn’t exist and no one uses in real life. No one is “disrespected” by calling by calling an extremely influential and memorable figure a legend because they aren’t amongst the very very 2 or 3 most elite of memorable and influential figures, there’s never been a hierarchy or grouping involved in calling people “legend” or “cult hero”, they’re just terms used to indicate notoriety, they’ve never been used to mean terms of the absolute most elite level of notoriety. “Legend” has never been used as a way to indicate an elite group of people, it’s just about having fame, influence and notoriety. 
 

You don’t disrespect Beethoven by calling Giorgio Moroder, Sam Cooke or Woody Guthrie a musical legend because they aren’t in the same category of musical and cultural influence and innovation as Beethoven. You don’t disrespect Pele, Maradona or Messi by calling Michel Platini or Zico footballing legends because they aren’t in the same group of level of footballer.
 

King and Albrighton are objectively and unquestionably amongst the most notorious and memorable players in the clubs history, just because they’re not Vardy or Arthur Chandler doesn’t make them not a legend, and neither is it disrespectful to Vardy or Chandler in calling them that. 

Nit picking I know but King and Albrighton notorious? 

[filbertway]

Hamza can't be far off becoming a club legend. One more contract extension and he'll seal his legendary status.

 

 

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, PhillippaT said:

Is this still the Daka thread?  

What is Daka? Is it Kingy's new club?

Edited 25 January by Nalis

[Nalis]

Begs the question, is anyone who signed after the premier league winning season a current club legend?

 

I would say no, not even Youri with his FA Cup winning goal as last season tainted things.

[CountesthorpeFox1]

1 hour ago, Greg2607 said:

It's a difficult one with Andy King isn't it... because ultimately, he is the highest scoring midfielder in our history.  In some ways, that alone makes him a club legend.  until that record is broken, he will always come up in the discussion. 

 

But as a 41 year old man, I've had loads of midfielders that I prefered to Andy King.  Izzet and Lennon for a start.   

 

King though, made the absolute best of his abilities, he was Leicester City through and through and none of us ever questioned his commitment to the club. 

 

He possibly sneaks in as a legend on stats alone, but not on absolute ability.  

I don’t think King sneaks in, I think he barges past most to sit in that list of legends.

 

As you say, we’ve had plenty of players that are better but they haven’t done what he’s done. In terms of ability he was a high end champ/to lower end prem standard midfielder but having better players can’t play a part otherwise no league one clubs would have legends. 

 

Forgetting stats that he has achieved he was a mainstay for a long period of time who helped build the foundations of where we are today as a club from when he joined the first team. During that period he was nothing short of brilliant and the player I would have been devastated to lose at that time. 

 

He did so much to get us to where we are today and you can’t say that about many players- Legend. 

 

Top scoring midfielder & winning 3 different leagues to boot (He may have not played a massive part but you try and take that medal off his mantelpiece)- Also, didn’t he score on the last day V Everton? 

 

 

[Jattdogg]

Mods change this thread to Daking

[Fox92]

35 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Begs the question, is anyone who signed after the premier league winning season a current club legend?

 

I would say no, not even Youri with his FA Cup winning goal as last season tainted things.

For me, anybody that scores a cup final goal, especially a winner, is a legend.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, RobHawk said:

If Andy king isn't a club legend, vardy aside, I don't know who is. 

 

The club legend I looked up to as a kid was walshy, and then muzzy, but neither were part of half of what kingy or Sharkey were. For me they are club legends. 

 

Ngolo was an incredible player for us the title winning season, but he's not a club legend for me, he has no love or affinity for the club and ****ed off at the first chance. 

Ngolo would not have signed, it was a clause that he can move to Chelsea

He never hide that fact, it was only the question of Ranieri asking then hoping he would take a 2nd season.. 

So let's not twist the why he left..!! 

 

Though I agree, that when compared to many past players without title, difficult to create that aurora for him as a

Legend... for me King, Nish, Walsh, have far better attributes towards club and has you aptly put affinity towards club & area.. 

Ngolo sits in that twighlight zone of being one of our best ever players, but falls short of club legend, where Mahrez, Weller, Cross, Walshy sits perfectly IMHO. 

[Greg2607]

1 hour ago, CountesthorpeFox1 said:

I don’t think King sneaks in, I think he barges past most to sit in that list of legends.

 

As you say, we’ve had plenty of players that are better but they haven’t done what he’s done. In terms of ability he was a high end champ/to lower end prem standard midfielder but having better players can’t play a part otherwise no league one clubs would have legends. 

 

Forgetting stats that he has achieved he was a mainstay for a long period of time who helped build the foundations of where we are today as a club from when he joined the first team. During that period he was nothing short of brilliant and the player I would have been devastated to lose at that time. 

 

He did so much to get us to where we are today and you can’t say that about many players- Legend. 

 

Top scoring midfielder & winning 3 different leagues to boot (He may have not played a massive part but you try and take that medal off his mantelpiece)- Also, didn’t he score on the last day V Everton? 

 

 

fair enough, I'm not going to argue against that view.   Shows how personal and subjective it can be. 

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

For me, anybody that scores a cup final goal, especially a winner, is a legend.

It was a legendary moment, but he's not a legend imo

[Twitcher]

I think it depends on what we mean by the term. For me it's someone who will always be talked about down the years as part of the club's history. Maybe someone who's name you don't have to search for in your memory banks, when someone says, name your club's famous players.

Having started supporting from the mid-seventies side, my legends, (purely from a playing aspect) in my time are:

Frank Worthington

Keith Weller

Gary Lineker

Steve Walsh

Jamie Vardy

Wes Morgan

Andy King

Kasper Schmeichel 

Marc Albrighton

Youri Tielemans 

 

As I'm putting the list together, I do now realise how subjective it is, and maybe mine's weighted too much with actually winning stuff. For example why haven't I put Steve Whitworth in, or Mark Wallington? Then there's Heskey, Izzet, Claridge, Elliott, and others.

I think if you said list your top five in my time supporting, it would be the first five on my list. Maybe swap Weller for one of the others.

Another measure could be, would you definitely want to be there to stand and clap them off on their final appearance for the club? King and Albrighton, a massive yes!

 

Edit: Birch would get in for football plus things beyond, and Mahrez doesn't get in for football plus things beyond.

 

Meanwhile back to Patson...

 

Edited 25 January by Twitcher