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jonthefox

The "do they mean us?" thread

By jonthefox, in Leicester City Forum

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ScouseFox

ScouseFox

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A guy from the Southampton forum

Quote Originally Posted by hasper57saint View Post

When you are 2 - 0 up you continue attacking.Don't think we did that.Just think,a win would have in fifth this morning!

We brought Romeu on against Swansea and completely shut the game down.

Can't say I'm too worried about it, Leicester just showed why they're where they are (in the second half), and also why they're not going to be there at the end of the season (in the first).

if it was the other way round then he'd have some kind of point (a shit one but still). if we'd lucked our way to a two goal lead but then got battered second half and our heads dropped and we looked unfit and shoddy and quite pathetic, then maybe that would be a case to say we're in a false position and will finish near the bottom.

but two goals down despite playing alright, then coming back (again) and really being the ones who should've won the game shows just why we aren't actually shit at all.

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fleckneymike

fleckneymike

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I suspect that many fans, journalists and neutrals don't believe that Vardy has the necessary quality because what he does well appears 'simple' or 'natural' (i.e. running about, being a pest, being quick). What he doesn't do so well, pass the ball, is what many people (rightly or wrongly) view as indicative of 'class'. Once we signed Vardy we created/measured stats that other clubs weren't measuing and began focusing on getting Jamie to do those things better (press, turnover, force errors) and ignored those elements which don't necessarily lead to goals.

 

His pass % is 68%, this is brilliant for us as no top 6 side will want a player who doesn't retain posession. In his three seasons with us his passing accuracy hasn't improved at all, nor has the amount of times that he is dispossessed per match, and poor touches per game remain around 2 per match; all 'bad' things which you notice. However his average interceptions have doubled, his tackles increased, dribbles increased, key passes increased, shots per game increased, and tackles attempted also increased; all things we tend to assume shit players do because they can't do the clever stuff.

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Webbo

Webbo

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Vardy is in dreamland

When a team goes 2-0 down, a lot of players would start to think about damage limitation. Not Leicester. When I saw they were 2-0 down at halftime, I thought to myself: 'This isn't over.' And as soon as Jamie Vardy pulled one back you knew something could happen. 

Nigel Pearson instilled that never-say-die attitude, Claudio Ranieri has taken it on and Vardy typifies it. He just does not give up. So much of that attitude comes from his non-League days and he must be appreciating every second of life in the top flight.

In his wildest dreams I'm sure he never thought he would be competing for the Premier League golden boot. Make no mistake, he is a serious contender.

 

 

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VLC86

VLC86

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Vardy is in dreamland
When a team goes 2-0 down, a lot of players would start to think about damage limitation. Not Leicester. When I saw they were 2-0 down at halftime, I thought to myself: 'This isn't over.' And as soon as Jamie Vardy pulled one back you knew something could happen. 
Nigel Pearson instilled that never-say-die attitude, Claudio Ranieri has taken it on and Vardy typifies it. He just does not give up. So much of that attitude comes from his non-League days and he must be appreciating every second of life in the top flight.
In his wildest dreams I'm sure he never thought he would be competing for the Premier League golden boot. Make no mistake, he is a serious contender.
 
 

 

 

An endorsement by Jamie Rednap? Well thats us Fcked.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

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A guy from the Southampton forum

Quote Originally Posted by hasper57saint View Post

When you are 2 - 0 up you continue attacking.Don't think we did that.Just think,a win would have in fifth this morning!

We brought Romeu on against Swansea and completely shut the game down.

Can't say I'm too worried about it, Leicester just showed why they're where they are (in the second half), and also why they're not going to be there at the end of the season (in the first).

Got a point. We're not going to stay 5th all season because the defence is muck.

Get that sorted and we cN think about top 8 bit now I think we'll do what West Ham did last season where they were brilliant for the first half of the season but pretty average for the rest.

Even at this stage, top 10 would be a fabulous achievement.

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Captain...

Captain...

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if it was the other way round then he'd have some kind of point (a shit one but still). if we'd lucked our way to a two goal lead but then got battered second half and our heads dropped and we looked unfit and shoddy and quite pathetic, then maybe that would be a case to say we're in a false position and will finish near the bottom.

but two goals down despite playing alright, then coming back (again) and really being the ones who should've won the game shows just why we aren't actually shit at all.

 

 

The point is valid though that we have been vulnerable quite often this season and being able to turn it on and come back is great but being consistently 2 goals behind and not keeping a clean sheet yet is a cause for concern.

 

I'm not saying we will be found it but it can go either way, we can either work out how to defend and finish top half challenging for Europa league, or opposition will work out how to stop us from scoring, defend deeper, leave no space behind and get someone fast to keep an eye on Vardy. Similarly a couple of injuries could de-rail our season.

 

As fun as the comebacks are we need to stop conceding so many goals.

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ScouseFox

ScouseFox

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I suspect that many fans, journalists and neutrals don't believe that Vardy has the necessary quality because what he does well appears 'simple' or 'natural' (i.e. running about, being a pest, being quick). What he doesn't do so well, pass the ball, is what many people (rightly or wrongly) view as indicative of 'class'. Once we signed Vardy we created/measured stats that other clubs weren't measuing and began focusing on getting Jamie to do those things better (press, turnover, force errors) and ignored those elements which don't necessarily lead to goals.

 

His pass % is 68%, this is brilliant for us as no top 6 side will want a player who doesn't retain posession. In his three seasons with us his passing accuracy hasn't improved at all, nor has the amount of times that he is dispossessed per match, and poor touches per game remain around 2 per match; all 'bad' things which you notice. However his average interceptions have doubled, his tackles increased, dribbles increased, key passes increased, shots per game increased, and tackles attempted also increased; all things we tend to assume shit players do because they can't do the clever stuff.

 

the amount of times he's dispossessed seems like it's increased dramatically in the last 6 months alone, let lone since he joined us. he spent the first 6 months as a premier league player just running straight into centre halves. he has learnt to sometimes run with the ball, or sometimes give and go or wait for a through ball now instead of getting it, turning and running straight into some of the best centre backs in the world every single time. 

 

also all of the stats you say "haven't improved" (stayed the same?) now happen at a much higher level than they used to so i guess technically they have improved a bit? being dispossessed twice a game in the prem is better than twice a game in the champ? 

 

 

i get your point though. i tried to explain a while ago why he was great to mates who don't support us and i couldn't. he just is. he's, er, dead quick and runs loads. but is amazing. 

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Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot

Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot

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Yeah what class all he does is run around faster than everyone else and score more goals than everyone else would much rather have Harry Kane or Wayne Rooney they are players with actual class unlike Vardy who is just really fast and scores loads of goals who wants that in a team should get as much as we can for him in January up the foxes.

Edited by Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot
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fleckneymike

fleckneymike

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All he does is score goals!

 

The flip side is that we are built to exploit the pace we have, that comes at a cost which is ball retention and team shape.

 

We score a lot of goals but we also concede an awful lot. Now that is fine for us as we're looking to improve on last season, but long term I doubt we can afford to concede two goals per game.

 

If we take Palace and West Ham (who are either side of us in the table), then the difference in passing stats is noticable.

 

80%+ passing accuracy - minimum 400 minutes

 

Palace 5 players, West Ham 6, us 3 (King, Drinkwater, Kante).

 

75 - 79% passing accuracy - minimum 400 minutes

 

Palace 4, West Ham 2, us 2 (Shinji, Wes)

 

Below 70% passing accuracy - minimum 400 minutes (outfield only)

 

Palace 0, West Ham 1, us 3 (Vardy, Albrighton, RDL)

 

So if you're looking to add to your squad and your style of play is built around posession play then Vardy might not be your man.  However, West Ham do still play an astounding amount of long balls per match (8 of their outfield players attempt 2 or more per game whilst only 4 of ours do).

 

I am not criticising our style of play, it is very exciting and effective (currently) but I don't think it is unreasonable for supporters of sides who play in a slightly more measured fashion to question a players technical proficiency in the areas they are used to seeing their side dominate.

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Oxfordfox83

Oxfordfox83

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Precisely. Is Andy Carroll technically gifted? Of course he isn't but when he's fully fit he's incredibly effective and once cost Liverpool £35m.

I actually think Carroll is near as dammit the opposite of Vardy. Potentially great player with a great half season behind him (young, playing for boyhood club, scoring for fun), gets big money move and gets lazy-doesn't train, drinks, isn't fit (hence the injuries), but earns enough and does well enough at OK side. With his size and his finishing technique (look again at his Newcastle goals) he could have been a great, and he's just an ok.

Vardy has worked every day to get better, get the move, get us promoted and to fit into a Premier League team. He may have less gifts, but he works them into the ground, and for me that is class. Hope he sticks around, because he doesn't half suit our game...

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FireFox

FireFox

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Whoscored: League Focus: How Premier League Teams Fare When Falling Behind

There were some contrasting but equally unsurprising outcomes from the weekend's Premier League action. Leicester came from two goals behind to steal a point against Southampton while Aston Villa, having fallen behind for the 8th successive league match, failed to salvage anything after gifting Chelsea the lead at Stamford Bridge.

After that game under-fire Villa boss Tim Sherwood bemoaned the concession of the opening goal - claiming the team that scores the first goal wins around 85% of matches. While accurate that the opening goal is so often the most important, the acceptance that it will end in a somewhat inevitable defeat is costing the sides at the foot of the table, while Leicester's defiance of such reasoning has kept them flying high in the league.

Jamie Vardy's last gasp leveller ensured that Leicester picked up their 7th point of the season from a losing position – the most in the league. In 5 of their 9 league games this season the Foxes have come from behind to salvage at least a point, proving that a positive attitude from the players and manager can have a massive impact on a team's league standing.

Indeed, some might argue that Leicester's indomitable spirit has actually masked a worrying trend. They have been behind at one stage or another in 6 matches this season. Only Sunderland (345) and Newcastle (339) have been losing for more minutes than Ranieiri's men (309). To put that into perspective Leicester - who sit fifth - have been behind in matches for 5 more minutes than the aforementioned Villa, who are second from bottom in the league.

Ranieri, of course, would rather his side didn't trail at all but he, unlike a number of his managerial counterparts, has great faith in the fact that the opening goal isn't always decisive....

 

More on other teams and two infographics in the link.

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suffolk fox

suffolk fox

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Reading that above article makes me cringe? Leicester steal a point at Southampton! What? There was onlu one team

In it second half and it wasn't Southampton. Knock off their second because it was offside we would have won.

What is it with media, pundits and the like who can't admit that what we have at Leicester is a great team playing bloody good football.

Shearer and even Lineker on motd on Saturday saying things like, Southampton won't be happy how they threw it away? No, they

Didn't throw it away we upped it second half and they couldn't cope with our movement and pace Alan and Gary.

I have also read a piece by a Southern journalist in the Echo a Southampton newspaper saying after previous International breaks

Southampton have stuffed Sunderland 8 0 and Wba 4 0 previously.

Well matey who wrote that article we ain't Sunderland or Wba. We don't roll over for anyone and our fitness levels are phenemonal.

I am getting sick and tired of journalists, punters and media darlings not giving us the credit we deserve.

Come on admit it we are bloody good.

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Bayfox

Bayfox

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People really underestimate just how powerful pace really is at this level, if you're part of a team that can use it properly - (which the England national team doesn't).

 

Which I find ironic, due to this rubbish group in qualifying we have had a lot of the ball, come the euros, how much of it will we see? 

 

I'd love woy to realise this and in the next 2 friendlies, spain and france i think, actually set up in a way that means when we pinch the ball, we counter quickly and see how we done then, play vardy in a position that suits and get, walcott and sterling etc up with him, when pique, ramos are stood on the half way line and jordi alba is about 6 yards from our goal.

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

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I have also read a piece by a Southern journalist in the Echo a Southampton newspaper saying after previous International breaks

Southampton have stuffed Sunderland 8 0 and Wba 4 0 previously.

Well matey who wrote that article we ain't Sunderland or Wba. We don't roll over for anyone and our fitness levels are phenemonal.

 

 

I think you'll find that journalist was dismissing the notion that tiredness was to blame for Southampton surrendering the lead, so you actually agree with him.

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Jimmy

Jimmy

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Last night on MNF,Gary Neville was raving about Jamie Vardy's contribution to the team

And Garragher with a smile on his face said "why did you play him on the wing then".

Neville stumbled and muttered something about Kane And Rooney.

Because he couldn't say what he was think "I'm not the ****ing manager ask him"

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Corky

Corky

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There's a snobbery around Vardy, that's for sure. For all the talk of the love of rises from the depths to the top, it's not actually all that appreciated. Scouts are given a huge press and praise for their work so when one slips through the net and returns it's about avoiding criticism. Vardy's not a product of the Premier League academy, he's not had the best facilities and coaches to work with, he's had to drop levels and grind his bollocks off to make it, let alone star in it.

 

Then there's a view that all he does is run around, totally ignoring the excellent work he does. Even his runs are intelligent and clever and not just for show to look like he cares. He's adding better finishing, composure, first touch to his game which is making a difference. He's not at a fashionable club either.

 

He's not the best striker out there but no-one is getting more from his abilities than Vardy right now and that is testament to him. Every club would love a player like him around the place.

Edited by Corky
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ScouseFox

ScouseFox

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the neville/carragher piece on MNF was depressing last night wasn't it. neville basically said vardy was amazing, he talked us through how he was number 1 at pretty much every good stat and said something like "he's always involved in the box and a centre forward that 95% of teams would love to have as a central striker, he's got all the qualities you want from a centre forward". then when carragher joked/asked why england play him left wing neville said "well we've got harry kane and er rooney". 

 

basically saying vardy could carry on being the best striker in the league (comfortably the best englishman, too) but it doesn't matter because we've got harry kane so he'll never start up front. 

 

inspiring. 

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Christoph

Christoph

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If vardy gets to 20+ goals this season then I'd be pretty confident he would get at least one chance in the middle for England. Not that it matters though, don't think him playing in the middle would make too much difference as I see many English players passing the ball efficiently to him

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AKCJ

AKCJ

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Surely we're getting close to Vardy's run of form being about as long as Kanes was tbh if you include the way he finished last season?

 

 

Kane scored 21 PL goals last season. 3 came before their 2-1 win against us at the King Power, 2 came after their 4-3 win against us at White Hart Lane.

 

So he scored 16 goals between Boxing Day and the 21st of March. Which means he got 16 goals in 13 games (including 4 against us).

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