Arsenal Post Match

[ARTY_FOX]

Should never have sat on a one goal lead. Unbelievably stupid to stop doing what was making you great for 20 minutes because you scored a goal. 

[Nick]

9 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Horrific refereeing decision that did us? Since when is Puel a ref? 

 

Look, I'm firmly on the fence regard the whole in and out stuff but he threw away any chance of points today with an absolutely appalling change of shape. 

 

People have been crying out for three at the back for months, he finally does it and we dominate arsenal at their own gaff for the first half hour. We were brilliant. 

 

As soon as they get back in the game, he bottles it and swaps back causing absolute chaos in our defence. Nobody has a clue who they're marking for the two second half goals it was complete carnage. 

 

I think something needed to be changed in the second half, we started poorly after the break and clearly some adjustment was in order but that could have been achieved by putting Shinji on for Nacho and pulling Maddison to sit deeper in the middle. Or bringing on Iborra for one of the front three to get back some control. 

 

Not changing the whole shape of the back four, momentarily putting ****ing Evans at left back ffs. 

This.

[Dr The Singh]

9 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

But that's all we've got...

Who buys 3 defenders to sit on the bench, who buys a left winger who hasnt aued for a year, who buys a left back that can't defend. Bwhongets rid of the target strikers and doesn't replace them?

 

It's our own doing, our player strategy has been awful

 

[yorkie1999]

As soon as vardy starts sitting back, that's when we go down hill. Should be forced to sit on the last defender. His very presence is a threat, as an attacker, pull him back into midfield to help cover, and we've no outlet and no threat.

[oadby.fox]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I do smile at the scoulding you get for merely suggesting an ounce of dissatisfaction. We were poor, and yet a 30 minute spell of wasted domination is enough to satisfy some people? 

 

 

I don’t think all the players buy into Puels philosophy and I think that is evident in the body language of a few of them, I’m not happy with how things are going theres nothing about us anymore, we’ve lost all of our previous characteristics we had prior to Puels arrival and we have a soft underbelly and are easy to beat...

 

Performances ultimately mean jack, unless you back them up with some kind of result. 

 

 

Yeah my thoughts exactly. I was at the game and whilst I thought that we shaded the first half, I knew that we would need at least a 2-goal lead to even have a chance of coming away with a point. Once we scored we dropped off though and allowed them to dictate the game, whether that was the manager's tactical decision or just incompetence I'm not sure.

 

People can be a little too cynical at times, or have unrealistic expectations, but I don't think that fans should be satisfied with 20-30 minute spells where we look like contesting the game. If it's possible to contest the game for 20 minutes, then it's up to the manager and coaching staff to translate that into actual results. If anything, it goes against the argument that these kind of games are completely out of reach with the squad we have. The more we keep responding to these negative results by saying "they were in form", "we played well for a spell" or "we never usually beat these", the more we are resigning ourselves to a slippery slope. So far I haven't seen the light at the end of the tunnel personally, and I am worried about where Puel would take us if he was to be given another year or two. I understand the optimism of some fans but I can't help but feeling like the wool has been pulled over their eyes. I think he should be given til the Summer to impress (unless of course we end up in a relegation dogfight) and if we finish outside of the top 10 with no sign of improving performances then I would honestly get rid. Having said that, player acquisition has also been woeful bar a few finds, it shouldn't just be Puel's job on the line.

 

To anyone else who was also at the same fixture last season, can you really say that we have improved in any measurable way since then? 

[somebum]

10 hours ago, lgfualol said:

Embarrassing how we collapsed. Why cant we just pay attention for a full game?

 

Hope there is a reason Vardy was so lackluster because we have him for another 4 years on over 100k a week..

Maybe that is the reason that Vardy isn't playing well

[StriderHiryu]

24 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

As soon as vardy starts sitting back, that's when we go down hill. Should be forced to sit on the last defender. His very presence is a threat, as an attacker, pull him back into midfield to help cover, and we've no outlet and no threat.

I agree with you but we don’t think it was our tactics that were responsible for this in this game. Vardy simply was not on it barely touching the ball or moving when on the pitch. I was at the game and watching him and his body language was not that of a player who was well. 

 

When Okazaki came on, Shinji chased down and got involved more than Vardy did the entire game. 

 

Where the manager got it wrong was withdrawing our attackers other than Vardy. Whilst Nacho and Maddison were largely absent in the second half they were still getting more involved than JV. 

[Bablemikey]

42 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Who buys 3 defenders to sit on the bench, who buys a left winger who hasnt aued for a year, who buys a left back that can't defend. Bwhongets rid of the target strikers and doesn't replace them?

 

Maybe a club that can’t attract the level of player they really want & have settle for players they can get but are much more of a gamble.

[RowlattsFox]

Its quite simple really, Arsenal are and were too good for us when they turned it on in the second half and they would have beaten most teams playing like that. We had our chance when on top but didn't take it due to poor finishing and poor refereeing. Some people seem to think we should be competing with the big boys but reality is we're not good enough for that and if they play well against us they will beat us comfortably. We need a lot of luck to get a result.

 

When teams attack us we struggle under the pressure, not sure what we do to change that.

 

Saturday is a big game for Puel, he can't afford a run of defeats.

[UniFox21]

Hyped for "ref watch" later where we see the quote "honestly no idea how he's missed that" to the handball

[Ricey]

At half-time I was excited. We were finally playing 3-5-2 and we were finally playing with bravery, positivity and intensity. We could have easily been comfortably ahead by the interval.

 

At full-time all that good feeling has been blown to pieces. I'm getting so tired of the negative approach that this manager errs towards. At half time we had been the better team by taking the game to Arsenal. Not by sitting deep and hitting them on the counter. Arsenal had 3 players on yellow cards, including their ancient full back and one of their central defenders. We hadn't won at Arsenal in the Premier League. We know our defence is prone to error and isn't the most composed. So what does he do?

 

He shuts up shop. Incredibly deep line, Vardy and Iheanacho basically playing as wide midfielders when Arsenal have the ball and effectively a 5-5 formation. Madness. Vardy was so deep that there was no counter attacking outlet when we won the ball, which meant the ball kept coming back at us and it was only a matter of time before Arsenal carved us open, which they did with ease. We somehow managed to be deep and compact, yet still frighteningly open.

 

Unfortunately it's another chapter in the increasingly lengthly book of baffling Claude Puel tactical decisions.

[lee7]

10 hours ago, Babylon said:

Vardy and Iheanacho playing up front with Maddison behind... isn't that exactly what people have been crying for all season?

But it wasn't really that at all was it? Vardy spent most of his time out on the left and the same with Iheanacho on the right. 

Edited 23 October 2018 by lee7

[Guest ttfn]

17 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I agree with you but we don’t think it was our tactics that were responsible for this in this game. Vardy simply was not on it barely touching the ball or moving when on the pitch. I was at the game and watching him and his body language was not that of a player who was well. 

 

When Okazaki came on, Shinji chased down and got involved more than Vardy did the entire game. 

 

Where the manager got it wrong was withdrawing our attackers other than Vardy. Whilst Nacho and Maddison were largely absent in the second half they were still getting more involved than JV. 

Completely agree with this. Iheanacho was playing the mirror of Vardy’s role down the right and  got played in behind the defence 3 or 4 times in the first half. His movement off the ball was good and rewarded with balls for him to run onto. Vardy stood still for the most part and consequently got no service.

 

Given that Vardy spends a huge proportion of his time drifting left anyway I struggle to sympathise with those saying he was out of position. If you play a 3-5-2 the forwards have to push wide to create options ahead of the wing backs. Iheanacho seemed to get that, as did Vardy when he was asked to play a similar role in the Great Escape.

[breadandcheese]

13 minutes ago, Bablemikey said:

Maybe a club that can’t attract the level of player they really want & have settle for players they can get but are much more of a gamble.

We're paying some big money for players. It's not like we're scraping around trying to find a bargain.

 

Pereira - £19.8m

Ghezzal - £12m

Soyuncu - £22m

Iborra - £12m

Silva - £24m

 

It's a lot of money and a club succeeds or fails due to its signings. I dread to think of what they're actually worth if selling in the transfer market.

 

That Charlie Adam interview last season about Stoke's failings springs to mind where he said that players were replaced by inferior players on big money.

[RonnieTodger]

Really bizarre performance. I don't know how you can go from being that good in 30 to that shit for the rest.

 

When Arsenal had that spell towards the end of the second half, it was vital not to concede and from then on it was all too predictable. They were fantastic in the second half, but we were equally as painful. Did we manage to string 5 passes together at any given moment after Ozil's goal?

 

The substitutions were really bizarre. Iheanacho wasn't great last night, but he did a hell of a lot more than Vardy. I think I did.

 

Love the guy, but don't see the point in Okazaki anymore, surely we're better than that?

[breadandcheese]

I think the game plan was to have our forwards sitting on the Arsenal fullbacks to stop them pushing forward as well as exploiting the space behind them on a counter attack. That in itself makes sense.

 

What doesn't is letting the forwards fall too deep, halfway into our own half. There comes a point where you tell the forwards stay up top and pull wide.  Give the fullbacks a decision to make. Push up and leave an opponent unmarked or sit deeper and not allow Arsenal to push up.

[Fox1norfolk]

10 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

The problem is he needs a partner, someone next to him that can be trusted. 

What worries me is the way the goals were scored, not thunderbolts from 20 yards or flick-on from set pieces, but they passed and passed the ball into the net, where were our defenders? sad after a fantastic first half.

[volpeazzurro]

Perhaps it's Puels fault we haven't won there since 1973 as well, or whenever it was? 

 

Yes, we played well for 30 minutes or so, should of had a penalty (plus possibly Holding sent off for handball),  they should have also had two players booked for the same type of cynical foul that Ndidi got booked for in the 2nd half ... but it didn't happen.

 

Nine times out of 10, over 90 minutes,  a team with better quality and more experienced players will beat a team of lower quality young inexperienced players, simple as. When they bring on the 29yrs old £60m international Aubamayang, we bring on a Poundtretcher Gazelle (if only he was as fast as one), in itself that tells a story. Their goals were quality and whilst some can try to blame certain of our players positioning, the defence splitting accuracy and pace of the balls in were sublime. We were beaten by a better team. Whether 3, 5 or 8 at the back, Arsenal on their second half form would 9 times out of 10 still have beaten us and they did. No real surprise. Something we're reasonably going to have to accept, though galling,  this current transitional season. No sweat, West Ham are more of a proper test.

[Sunbury Fox]

I was there and whilst I know we got blown away in the end, for the first 35 minutes we were genuinely superb. Don't think many non top 6 sides could dominate a game away at a big club in that fashion. It was so comfortable for us defensively and we should have been at least 2 ahead. Let's not forget that in the ensuing meltdown. 

 

But their first goal right on half time was a massive sucker punch and they had the momentum to tear into us in the second half afterwards. Maybe they were simply too good but our tactics were also utterly baffling. First, they were playing a really high line and yet we never once tried a ball over the top, to test out their 2 defenders on yellows. Second, we left on Vardy and took off Ian when the latter was looking far more dangerous and the former clearly unfit. And most criminally Puel changed from 352 to a 4 at the back involving about 4 positional changes and we promptly shipped 2 goals in 5 minutes with the defence all over the place. Just so, so frustrating. 

Edited 23 October 2018 by Sunbury Fox

[coolhandfox]

Getting predictable, as in most games against the top six, this season, good 30 mins, should be 2-0! 

 

Maguire shouldn't be giving keeper a chance to save it with the header!

 

Love football, but once again we scored and stopped playing!

 

Just feel we are about of a soft touch and too easy to play against.

 

[Bunyip]

3 hours ago, FIF said:

Typical overreaction after a loss. Nacho could easily have bagged two in the first 10 minutes. Puel outwitted a "top" manager for half the match away from home against a European team on an 11 game win streak.

 

The sooner that you realise we are not a top 5 team the easier your life will be. We are an upper middle prem team, which I'm very happy with. 7th is a possibility, as is 12th, I won't cry over either finish.

Typical underreaction to yet another abysmal managerial display. The sooner you realise how bad Puel is the easier your life will be. 

[dmayne7]

Incompetence in the second half only match by the absolute melt behind me. Telling Amartey to f*** off back to Cameroon (he's from Ghana mate), calling Lichtsteiner a Nazi (ermm, he's Swiss) and moaning at Maddison for not chasing the ball in the second half (did so much running and closing down).

 

Love having great fans like that.

 

[hairy]

Two things bother me from last night

 

Firstly the inability to change our play. The first 30 minutes we were all over them, scored a goal, then it was all them for the next hour. We failed to make a consistent pressure period (over two minutes) in the last hour. For some reason after we scored we were never really in it

 

Secondly, the substitutes. None made an impact. Albrighton has been woeful coming on as  a sub in the past few matches but we still bring him on. Ghezzal worse. Shinji made an impact but it was too little too late. We need more depth in the squad and need the ability to be able to change our play when making the substitutions.

 

I could rant on about Evans who is a championship player at best but i am sure the manager will be looking for a new CB in the next window anyway.

Edited 23 October 2018 by hairy

[volpeazzurro]

37 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Typical underreaction to yet another abysmal managerial display. The sooner you realise how bad Puel is the easier your life will be. 

Even Guadiola couldn't play champagne and oyster football with beer and chips players. Puel is in the same boat. He's trying to change us from what we used to do very well, but no longer have the players to do it, to, something more viable with the young, though raw, hopefully adaptable players we have. Any manager coming in would have a similar problem. It will take time whatever manager we have due to the  smattering of very good players mixed up with some mediocrity. 

[Babylon]

45 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Typical underreaction to yet another abysmal managerial display. The sooner you realise how bad Puel is the easier your life will be. 

Yeah awful losing against a team who have won 10 on the trot and have £60m strikers on the bench, a team we've not beaten since the 70's there.