The Super League

[davieG]

12 minutes ago, 1994fox said:

Can we start a thread that is dedicated to broadcasting any calls to action?
 

E.g link petitions, contact points for MP, contact points for the club etc

 

It feels like we need to maintain the momentum and pressure - and everything helps. 

 

[WhipcatMetre]

21 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Those laws apply to all, not just certain people.

 

The govt can make things awkward for a time but it won't necessarily stand up in court. 

If the Government do choose to follow through with their threats about proper legislation being brought in to counter this, I find it unlikely a court challenge from the ESL/Big 6 would be successful. To the best of my knowledge, courts can only rule on the existing statute law (e.g. Acts of Parliament, legislation passed by Parliament) available to them. Every court in the land has to rule off of the law, and if the statute law says it (even if the Judges/Justices disagree with what it says) they can't dispute what it says and making a ruling based on opinion - they have to make a ruling based on what it says. In addition to this, if there is a pre-existing law that stops the government doing what they want, they have a majority in parliament - they can simply repeal it.
 

Of course, whether they will go to the length of legislation or not is debatable, but it's very much a potent and likely threat, especially given it's perfect timing for the government (in the midst of corruption scandals + action taken over it will please pretty much the entire country so a nice boost in polling).

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, Osavo said:

Excellent from Guardiola. This is what Klopp should have done, this is what Tuchel should have done. Come out and stand up to it, don't hide behind saying 'it's nothing to do with us'.

 

Without sounding too cynical, purely speculating on the gossip, has Pep been told from higher-ups that Man City want out of the Super League now and was given a bit of freedom to air his grievance with it? Seems a bit of a coincidence they’re the team considering withdrawing and Pep’s the manager to speak out.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Just now, whitlock said:

Just goes to show why there needs to be more independent regulation. It's in the interests of the those sorts of clubs to vote for a points deduction - because they'll qualify for CL and earn loads. 

 

But why should they be able to vote on their own destiny? 

[Kopfkino]

15 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You can't create a law that only apply to certain people. You can't make it illegal for Man U to stage football matches without making it illegal for everyone else. This isn't China, the govt can't act in arbitrary ways. 

 

Too much of this debate is based on wishful thinking. These billionaires wouldn't go into this without checking out all the legal possibilities. 

Why can’t you? I can’t sell alcohol from my house, a pub landlord can. For either of us to do it, we need a license. Scale that up and never give Man Utd a license to play these games.
 

The government can propose whatever it wants and if parliament votes it through then it becomes law. The only constraint on parliament is that it can’t bind the hands of future parliaments. The government can’t act arbitrarily because parliament has the final say and I wouldn’t expect parliament to oppose it if we’ll-measured. Then it’s only whether they can find a hole in that legislation.

 

You speak as if billionaires are infallible and could never overplay their hands.

Edited 20 April 2021 by Kopfkino

[mozartfox]

Sean is quiet?

[Livid]

Just now, WhipcatMetre said:

If the Government do choose to follow through with their threats about proper legislation being brought in to counter this, I find it unlikely a court challenge from the ESL/Big 6 would be successful. To the best of my knowledge, courts can only rule on the existing statute law (e.g. Acts of Parliament, legislation passed by Parliament) available to them. Every court in the land has to rule off of the law, and if the statute law says it (even if the Judges/Justices disagree with what it says) they can't dispute what it says and making a ruling based on opinion - they have to make a ruling based on what it says. In addition to this, if there is a pre-existing law that stops the government doing what they want, they have a majority in parliament - they can simply repeal it.
 

Of course, whether they will go to the length of legislation or not is debatable, but it's very much a potent and likely threat, especially given it's perfect timing for the government (in the midst of corruption scandals + action taken over it will please pretty much the entire country so a nice boost in polling).

Honestly even for this government it's a no lose situation. It's a massive feel good win for them after an horrific year.

[simon789us]

All the government need to do is refuse to police these games 

[manders86]

1 minute ago, Livid said:

Honestly even for this government it's a no lose situation. It's a massive feel good win for them after an horrific year.

They'll find a way to mess it up, don't worry 👍

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

Why can’t you? I can’t sell alcohol from my house, a pub landlord can. For either of us to do it, we need a license. Scale that up and never give Man Utd a license to play these games.
 

The government can propose whatever it wants and if parliament votes it through then it becomes law. The only constraint on parliament is that it can’t bind the hands of future parliaments. The government can’t act arbitrarily because parliament has the final say and I wouldn’t expect parliament to oppose it if measured.

 

You speak as if billionaires are infallible and could never overplay their hands.

Wouldn't you need a reason to refuse a licence? Bit hard to argue Man U didn't qualify for one when they've been hosting games for 100 years plus. 

[RowlattsFox]

Really hope we finish top 4 to ensure we qualify on merit. Already starting to see people say Leicester will qualify for the champions League because of points deductions or expulsions. Same for the FA cup. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Why can’t you? I can’t sell alcohol from my house, a pub landlord can. For either of us to do it, we need a license. Scale that up and never give Man Utd a license to play these games.
 

The government can propose whatever it wants and if parliament votes it through then it becomes law. The only constraint on parliament is that it can’t bind the hands of future parliaments. The government can’t act arbitrarily because parliament has the final say and I wouldn’t expect parliament to oppose it if measured.

 

You speak as if billionaires are infallible and could never overplay their hands.

Unfortunately there is a school of thought that believes exactly that.

 

Equating bank balance with acumen/intelligence/"success" every time.

[ARTY_FOX]

I wish perez would stop trying to say it's going to 'save football' and just say it's going to save Real Madrid tbh 

[urban.spaceman]

14 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Dan Roan. A twat you are.

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, simon789us said:

All the government need to do is refuse to police these games 

They can just refuse to give them a licence to host them. However they would probably just play in Saudi or LA instead.

[David Hankey]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

The man is a buffoon. Will never forget the comments he made about Vichai shortly after his tragic death.

[StanSP]

Pep can often rub people up the wrong way but he's been very direct and honest here today. Good on him. 

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Really hope we finish top 4 to ensure we qualify on merit. Already starting to see people say Leicester will qualify for the champions League because of points deductions or expulsions. Same for the FA cup. 

Even if we did and there was a points deduction the media would still go on about how the teams got in due to the deduction like they still talk about Chelsea winning the PL for us.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Fox92]

14 minutes ago, Osavo said:

Excellent from Guardiola. This is what Klopp should have done, this is what Tuchel should have done. Come out and stand up to it, don't hide behind saying 'it's nothing to do with us'.

 

I just watched Pep, that interview, on SSN and he did criticise it but also went around the bushes a bit as he kept saying "we [managers] don't have enough information to have an opinion" which is what Klopp's point was. It was too early for Tunchel but hopefully he criticises also.

[Bert]

4 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Really hope we finish top 4 to ensure we qualify on merit. Already starting to see people say Leicester will qualify for the champions League because of points deductions or expulsions. Same for the FA cup. 

They’d like to use that as an excuse but we are the only team that’s been in the top 4 all season long  

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

 

[bovril]

Just now, David Hankey said:

The man is a buffoon. Will never forget the comments he made about Vichai shortly after his tragic death.

Didn't know Yoda had a side career in football punditry. 

[fazzyfox]

41 minutes ago, ttfn said:

I’ve said earlier in the thread that I think that the 14 clubs have more financial power in this situation than people realise.

 

But right now we’re in a really high-stakes game of chicken. Both sides are capable of holding the other to ransom. It is in nobody’s interests to have a Premier League without the greedy 6 and it is not in the interests of the 14 to have a Premier League running in parallel with a Super League. 
 

The only reasonable way out of this is for the “Super” clubs to back down and the only way that will happen is if they think they will be worse off under the new structure than the current one.

 

There are a few ways that can happen, amongst others:

1) The other 14 get rid of them. Vote them out, deduct points, whatever the mechanism. This is hugely risky but would be quick and decisive. As I’ve said earlier I think at that point the risk becomes too big for the Greedy 6 and they will come crawling back.

2) Don’t watch. Without viewers there is no advertising or subscription money. They will default on their debt to JP Morgan and go out of business (or come back). This is a new product, we have no loyalty or interest in watching it, there’s no history to it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. Your life will not be worse for missing out on a European Super League that currently does not exist. Simple. 

3) Don’t buy from the advertisers. I won’t be buying anything from anybody advertising this. Again, this is highly likely not to be a problem - does it really matter if you have to stop drinking Heineken or going to McDonalds? You might say “what difference do I make?” but there are tens of millions of people across Europe opposed to this.

 

The most important thing is that people do not give up and do not forget. The Guardian live article earlier made the very salient point that the Glazers have ridden out similar controversies before (where are those green and gold scarves now?) because people ran out of interest/energy.

 

We are too passive as fans in this country. We need to come together and act as a unit to put pressure on the authorities and the clubs in question where we can. We need to stand not only with our club but with supporters of other clubs.

I agree with the principle of no.2 absolutely thinking in terms of us in this country or wider Europe but if Asia / middle east etc viewers subscribe (and buy the shirts and merchandise) would that bring in enough in itself and with the in-stadium adverts tailored to those regions too?

[moore_94]