Reg Vardy Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 18 hours ago, Finnegan said: No but what you meant was equally daft. The Saudis don't really want to try and replace the Premier League, if they did they wouldn't be buying in to it. They can't really place the Premier League, I think even with extreme hubris or intense naivety they'd still have the common sense to appreciate that the "soul" of English football is part of the product. Fans around the world are invested in Liverpool and Anfield, United and Old Trafford, the history, the rivalries, the identities and iconographies of those clubs matter. We might cringe and roll our eyes every time BT Sport roll out the same tired, deluded tropes about how the atmosphere at Anfield is so special but a lot of the international audience laps that shit up. Nobody's going to care about generic Saudi football club they've never heard of #1 and because nobody is going to care, they aren't going to attract the best sponsorships, they aren't going to attract the best players. There's a reason they're targeting high profile OAPs and mercenaries. Yes, they want to raise the profile of the Saudi league and probably make it the biggest outside of Europe but they're going to be well aware that the "real" products are the Premier League and the Champions League and that's not changing any time soon. The Chinese (whose economy is vastly greater than Saudi's) tried for all of about 5 minutes before giving up and going back to investing in European football instead. Saudi’s signing far better/higher profile/ younger players than China ever did…..far more chance of building a league players want to play in…..might play in Saudi, but can live in Dubai, Qatar etc etc…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 7 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said: Saudi’s signing far better/higher profile/ younger players than China ever did…..far more chance of building a league players want to play in…..might play in Saudi, but can live in Dubai, Qatar etc etc…. I mean that's just complete revisionism. When the likes of Oscar, Carrasco, Hulk, Teixeira and Witsel went to China they were some of Europe's most promising players heading off in their prime. So far the biggest name to go to Saudi that's not going for a retirement fund is Ruben Neves, a mid table midfielder, a whole bunch of others have rejected moves. It's a roasting hot desert country with a terrible human rights record, it's not exactly the most attractive destination for a footballer taking his career seriously. You think you're going to commute from Dubai to Riyadh let alone Jeddah to ply your trade? No chance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Claw II Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 It’ll be amusing when Saudi teams create a world league or some such and the big 6 go off to join them - see golf. The Saudi’s have the money to take over football. It’s also pretty clear players go where the money is (as do most). I don’t think many Europeans or Brazilians dream or living in Burnley, Luton, Birmingham etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose2010 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 29 minutes ago, Finnegan said: I mean that's just complete revisionism. When the likes of Oscar, Carrasco, Hulk, Teixeira and Witsel went to China they were some of Europe's most promising players heading off in their prime. So far the biggest name to go to Saudi that's not going for a retirement fund is Ruben Neves, a mid table midfielder, a whole bunch of others have rejected moves. It's a roasting hot desert country with a terrible human rights record, it's not exactly the most attractive destination for a footballer taking his career seriously. You think you're going to commute from Dubai to Riyadh let alone Jeddah to ply your trade? No chance. Some of the post I agree with but you're talking about the signings that have currently gone. It's not July yet. If no one else goes then fair enough but it doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. Mendy Ziyech Saul Hudson-Odi Looking likey to go this week. Come August carrying on at this rate will be looking at 20-30 well known players over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookfox Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 It's pure sportswashing and unfortunately it probably works. I'm sure if you asked the average Newcastle fan about their owners pre-takeover you'd get "hmm, not sure, human rights, no history in football" etc. vs now it'd be more "Champions league, been great for the club and city like". The Premier League and football in general is a massive PR exercise for some and money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfoxes Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 (edited) The Lure of the Mega Wonga you can just imagine the Saudis waving a wad of cash at players like Harry Enfield did in loads a money sketch ! Edited 21 June 2023 by justfoxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markko Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 Wilf was so good and seems a decent person. We can only guess what has happened to him but it was not only infuriating but also sad to see how much far he regressed. If it is confidence/unhappy and we can get the old Wilf back, we should keep. If it is injury or he does not want to be here we have to let him go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Vardy Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 4 hours ago, Finnegan said: I mean that's just complete revisionism. When the likes of Oscar, Carrasco, Hulk, Teixeira and Witsel went to China they were some of Europe's most promising players heading off in their prime. So far the biggest name to go to Saudi that's not going for a retirement fund is Ruben Neves, a mid table midfielder, a whole bunch of others have rejected moves. It's a roasting hot desert country with a terrible human rights record, it's not exactly the most attractive destination for a footballer taking his career seriously. You think you're going to commute from Dubai to Riyadh let alone Jeddah to ply your trade? No chance. Naive in the extreme....having worked in the Country for 2.5 years it is a country on the change......they won't stop buying up players.....or paying the salaries......2 hour 40 flight time Dubai - Jeddah ...... golf, grand prix, boxing, concerts......if Qatar can host a World Cup, the Saudi's will go one better......finally I agree with their appalling human rights record, but was our slavery record the same thing at a different period in history? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 3 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said: at a different period in history? We aren't in a different period of history. Medieval Scandinavians sold slaves from Greenland to Russia to the Med. I'm not judging the Swedish government for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Vardy Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 as the old saying goes old mate that was then, this is now........Saudi Arabia will become a holiday destination, just like Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Oman, Egypt, great beaches, superb blue seas......and sport will (alreadty has) follow it.....who pays the price, gets the prize..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozartfox Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 53 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said: as the old saying goes old mate that was then, this is now........Saudi Arabia will become a holiday destination, just like Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Oman, Egypt, great beaches, superb blue seas......and sport will (alreadty has) follow it.....who pays the price, gets the prize..... Holiday destination for the rich. Very expensive if you like a drink. Plus fares on Etihad are outrageous. I think My Company is paying for Haarland….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post majaco Posted 21 June 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 21 June 2023 4 hours ago, Reg Vardy said: Naive in the extreme....having worked in the Country for 2.5 years it is a country on the change......they won't stop buying up players.....or paying the salaries......2 hour 40 flight time Dubai - Jeddah ...... golf, grand prix, boxing, concerts......if Qatar can host a World Cup, the Saudi's will go one better......finally I agree with their appalling human rights record, but was our slavery record the same thing at a different period in history? British involvement in the slave trade is not an excuse for human rights abuses now. There are still ramifications from the slave trade. Saudi human rights is happening now and affecting people now. Players joining the Saudi league or taking Saudi dollar are part of the problem 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamble92 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 47 minutes ago, majaco said: British involvement in the slave trade is not an excuse for human rights abuses now. There are still ramifications from the slave trade. Saudi human rights is happening now and affecting people now. Players joining the Saudi league or taking Saudi dollar are part of the problem Well said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Vardy Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 Not for one minute did I suggest it was, but like time has with us, they will change and already are….not sure how many people commenting on here have visited the country, but it needs to change, as oil will not be the driver of the economy in years to come, the need to diversify is essential…..twenty years ago tourism in Dubai was relatively tiny, now it’s not….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 11 hours ago, Finnegan said: I mean that's just complete revisionism. When the likes of Oscar, Carrasco, Hulk, Teixeira and Witsel went to China they were some of Europe's most promising players heading off in their prime. So far the biggest name to go to Saudi that's not going for a retirement fund is Ruben Neves, a mid table midfielder, a whole bunch of others have rejected moves. It's a roasting hot desert country with a terrible human rights record, it's not exactly the most attractive destination for a footballer taking his career seriously. You think you're going to commute from Dubai to Riyadh let alone Jeddah to ply your trade? No chance. Just want to understand this bit. Are you saying China would’ve been far more attractive than Saudi and listing Saudi’s historic human rights record ? Or have I read it wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 49 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: Just want to understand this bit. Are you saying China would’ve been far more attractive than Saudi and listing Saudi’s historic human rights record ? Or have I read it wrong ? I mean, I think the average European is, rightly or wrongly, more forgiving of (or oblivious to) China's human rights record compared to Saudi's. But that wasn't my point, no. I was just saying that simply having money and going on a mission to be a mega-league overnight doesn't really work. We've seen the MLS and the Chinese Super League both try and invest in big names to raise the profile of the sport. Saudi has a better platform than both given the popularity of the sport in the country already and it's better proximity to Europe. But it's still got no hope of ever replacing the Prem and - I stand by what I said earlier - I doubt it's even their aim to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 12 hours ago, Finn Claw II said: It’ll be amusing when Saudi teams create a world league or some such and the big 6 go off to join them - see golf. The Saudi’s have the money to take over football. It’s also pretty clear players go where the money is (as do most). I don’t think many Europeans or Brazilians dream or living in Burnley, Luton, Birmingham etc This is very plausible, especially if the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus get involved, which I am sure they are looking at, similar to the Super League. Saudi will likely attempt an aggressive takeover of Football over the next few years, and it will be interesting to see if the Premier League can prevent it, or maybe like the PGA, they will take the 'if you can't beat them, join them' stance. The sooner the world can get off oil and gas dependence, the better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 34 minutes ago, Finnegan said: I mean, I think the average European is, rightly or wrongly, more forgiving of (or oblivious to) China's human rights record compared to Saudi's. But that wasn't my point, no. I was just saying that simply having money and going on a mission to be a mega-league overnight doesn't really work. We've seen the MLS and the Chinese Super League both try and invest in big names to raise the profile of the sport. Saudi has a better platform than both given the popularity of the sport in the country already and it's better proximity to Europe. But it's still got no hope of ever replacing the Prem and - I stand by what I said earlier - I doubt it's even their aim to. Do you know what I agree with you. I actually think the concept of the Chinese league, the Saudi League and even the MLS will pull off the odd shock transfer but in the main, European football will always remain the pinnacle and for that reason, unless such leagues change their approach, they simply won’t grow to the level they allegedly dream of. On the other point, that was my fear. It’s ridiculous. When the Chinese were buying up Hulk etc. they were also building actual concentration camps. Concentration camps which are now filled up and undertaking a genocide - another Rwanda “not again” moment, perhaps. It’s ridiculous. The concept of sports washing is used quite lazily when referring only to Arab led takeovers. When In reality, the aim to sport wash is now a global problem. Abramovich was just a rich billionaire who wanted a play thing right ? How about Gaydamak. Fosun certainly have a heart of gold. And the King Power group flashing the Thai king at probably our most globally televised moment was just a coincidence. Don’t get me started on the yanks. I find it ridiculous that morals and values are so put aside dependant on the party. Acquiring money on that level, someone, somewhere has got badly hurt. Football is broken. And while the money that passes through remains at the level it is (with little chance of it returning to the “good ol’ days) it will remain broken. It just seems we have to be outraged but conditionally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Claw II Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 2 hours ago, STUHILL said: This is very plausible, especially if the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus get involved, which I am sure they are looking at, similar to the Super League. Saudi will likely attempt an aggressive takeover of Football over the next few years, and it will be interesting to see if the Premier League can prevent it, or maybe like the PGA, they will take the 'if you can't beat them, join them' stance. The sooner the world can get off oil and gas dependence, the better IMO. Once the UAE collectively own most of the top teams, it almost feels inevitable. You don’t need to be the best league, you just buy the best league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrispinLA in Texas Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 15 minutes ago, Finn Claw II said: Once the UAE collectively own most of the top teams, it almost feels inevitable. You don’t need to be the best league, you just buy the best league UAE 🤔 didn't know they owned a team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 11 hours ago, Reg Vardy said: Naive in the extreme....having worked in the Country for 2.5 years it is a country on the change......they won't stop buying up players.....or paying the salaries......2 hour 40 flight time Dubai - Jeddah ...... golf, grand prix, boxing, concerts......if Qatar can host a World Cup, the Saudi's will go one better......finally I agree with their appalling human rights record, but was our slavery record the same thing at a different period in history? that’s a terrible point you are trying to make. We were not around at the time to object to that or do anything about it, but we are now for what we see in the world today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolo Barella Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 17 hours ago, Reg Vardy said: Saudi’s signing far better/higher profile/ younger players than China ever did…..far more chance of building a league players want to play in…..might play in Saudi, but can live in Dubai, Qatar etc etc…. It's not like living in London and commuting to Leicester every day. Dubai to "wherever, Saudi" is not viable really. You have to be a particular kind of person to enjoy life in Dubai in any case, and that is even more true if you're living in Saudi. The money will obviously help but most normal people will suffer having to stay inside all day and only having the most base consumption to turn to for amusement (shopping, restaurants, that's it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 13 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said: It's not like living in London and commuting to Leicester every day. Dubai to "wherever, Saudi" is not viable really. You have to be a particular kind of person to enjoy life in Dubai in any case, and that is even more true if you're living in Saudi. The money will obviously help but most normal people will suffer having to stay inside all day and only having the most base consumption to turn to for amusement (shopping, restaurants, that's it). Normal people? We are talking about millionaire footballers with access to private jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 Speculation that Newcastle want Neves on loan. So it begins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod hero Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 36 minutes ago, TommyK said: Speculation that Newcastle want Neves on loan. So it begins.... Not good this as Gary Neville pointed out. Chelsea are involved in this as well. really sad to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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