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Tuna

Puel 'Facing the sack' - reports

By Tuna, in Leicester City Forum

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

...

 

I ask myself what it is I actually want, I'm not sure. Something still feels absent very quickly when we arent doing that well, it's more than the manager surely as everything is pointing to him doing a more than decent job but with many areas to improve on. Has the title win spoilt it? I'd say no, but it might well be how much I'd forgotten how boring mid table football is at any level I've seen my club at. 7th isn't mid table but I dont feel it would be the achievement it probably should be and that's wrong on my part. 

 

I think a lot of our fans are wankers, myself included.

Lots of great thoughts here, and honest self diagnosis.

Regarding the bit in bold, isn’t this to some degree inevitable? The siege mentality instilled by Pearson whilst stuck to the bottom of the league for so long, appears to be gone. Probably because a) we are doing better, b) personnel changes and c) we are no longer plucky underdogs (group hardship brings about solidarity)

Has the title win spoilt us? Difficult to quantify, but it’s not really a yes or no, I would say slightly by raising expectiations a little. 

Finally. Yes, me too.

 

 

 

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Oxfordfox83

Oxfordfox83

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

Can anyone who thinks everything is as simple as "just play counter attack" please explain exactly how that works against teams that do not push their centre backs and full backs forward? Cardiff's CBs sat back for the entire game, compare and contrast with the games against Man City and Chelsea, where the CBs were often strolling forward into the Leicester half frequently, and it's clear to see there is a hell of a lot more space in behind the defenders to play the ball into for Vardy then than there was in the Cardiff game.

 

We could sit deep ourselves anyway, in the hope that the opposition commits enough players forward to press us, but that will still require us to be able to play the ball around a high press to make space for the quick ball forward - which requires a defence more comfortable on the ball, which we have been assembling. Still, there is no guarantee that the opposition will take the bait and press and commit their defenders forward. Think back to the Watford game at home in the title season. Our best ever team, the best counter attacking unit around - and Watford turned up with the same tactics. The game was a complete stalemate in the first half. Nobody could play the ball in behind, and both teams just kept humping it forward and conceding possession. The breakthrough came from an absolute howler by Gomes in the second half, after which Watford had to chase the game, and that's when they committed their defenders higher up the pitch, and there was space in behind for Vardy to win the penalty.

 

We no longer have Kante and Drinkwater - Kante is the best in the world at what he does, because he is not just brilliant at winning the ball, but also pacy, able to turn on the ball quickly and an under-rated dribbler. He doesn't just win the ball, he is superb at driving the ball forward 10 yards or more, to get the attack onto the front foot after the transition. Drinkwater had a great understanding of Vardy's runs, and a good long passer, capable of getting his head up and seeing the runs in behind that Vardy makes. On top of that we also had Mahrez, one of the best wingers in the league, and a constant threat, drawing the attention of multiple defenders, again creating more space for Vardy. Our current midfielders are not as good at Kante at driving forwards, and none of them are as good as Drinkwater at picking out Vardy with long balls. Vardy also has more defenders focussed on him now Mahrez is gone, as none of our wingers are as dangerous as he was.

 

All this adds up to us needing to find a way to break down deep sitting, packed defences, using the players we have now. It is not as simple as "just" upping the tempo and playing counter attack, it wasn't working for Shakespeare against the likes of Huddersfield and WBA, and it won't work reliably now, except against the better teams who leave space behind to exploit. We need to become more multi-faceted, able to exploit possession when we have large amounts of it, whilst still able to launch effective counter attacks when the opportunities present themselves. We have score a decent amount of counter attacking goals this season, and Puel is hardly telling players to ignore viable counter attacks when they are possible - when they are on the pitch, the players have to get their heads up and make the decisions as to what to do - if Vardy is making a run behind, and the player thinks they can pick him out, then they are the ones who decide whether to do it or not. They are still trying to do it, against Cardiff, Mendy and Maddison both made attempts at times to pick Vardy out, and gave the ball away because they couldn't pull it off - so clearly they are either "going against Puel's supposed instructions", or they were perfectly at liberty to try the counter, but unable to pull it off.

 

Against these packed, deep sitting teams, all the space tends to be in front of the defence, not behind it. This is why we end up playing it sideways so much, because it is where the space is. The problems we have is that when it is not working, we need to be able to do it quicker and more fluidly, or with more unpredictable off the ball movement, to open up gaps in the defence to create chances. This is what we did against Cardiff away, putting together a slick passing move that lead to Gray's goal. We put together a patient passing move against Cardiff at home, which lead to us opening a space in their defence, getting Maddison in behind, and winning a penalty. If we had converted it, which we should have been able to, then Cardiff would have been forced to gamble and push up to chase the game, or carry on as they were and tamely run out 1-0 losers.

Outstanding post-the nub of the whole issue. 

Edited by Oxfordfox83
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Babylon

Babylon

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Izzy said:

I think the only reason this thread is still open is so that @Babylon can get to the magic 20,000 reps :D

Oooooh how many do I need!

 

Edit. 567 a days work. :D

Edited by Babylon
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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

It seems to me this article has gone way off the original topic but then don't so many.

 

Thats cus he's probably not facing the sack at the moment after a pretty damn good festive period so we're just filling in the time till it rears its head again ...   :thumbup:

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Nickfosse

Nickfosse

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Our home performances in 2018 have been pretty dire at times and that's where most of our fans see their team. Very few go away games, I know in this day and age streams are found to watch all games but the home displays are responsible for this continued divide. 

 

 

I think you’re right on this Ric. 

We are struggling to break teams down at home who defend deep in numbers and nullify our counter attack threat. We are lacking the  incisive passing and ability to open defences up in the final third and that can make our efforts look turgid at times.

I agree that it’s an area that really needs to improve. 

The only thing I’d say is that this is not just a Puel problem. Once teams worked out that attacking us at home with a high defensive line played into our hands, we’ve struggled to break teams down both with Ranieri and Shakespeare towards the end of their reigns. I think the problems run deeper than the manager but I understand the frustration. 

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Nickfosse said:

I think you’re right on this Ric. 

We are struggling to break teams down at home who defend deep in numbers and nullify our counter attack threat. We are lacking the  incisive passing and ability to open defences up in the final third and that can make our efforts look turgid at times.

I agree that it’s an area that really needs to improve. 

The only thing I’d say is that this is not just a Puel problem. Once teams worked out that attacking us at home with a high defensive line played into our hands, we’ve struggled to break teams down both with Ranieri and Shakespeare towards the end of their reigns. I think the problems run deeper than the manager but I understand the frustration. 

Very true, but to be totally fair he's also compounded the issue with some of his decisions. How often we continued with two CDM's when chasing a game or not able to open a team up. Little things like that then give people a reason to put it all on him.

 

I don't think he's a defensive manager, but he can be a little conservative. People then confuse the two.

 

He also sticks quite ridgedly to what he's doing. If it's not worked for 85 minutes it's unlikely to work in the last 5, so throw a curve ball, give them something to think about. Could be something as basic as chucking Harry up top for when we cross the ball in.

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ThaiFox

ThaiFox

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

Thats cus he's probably not facing the sack at the moment after a pretty damn good festive period so we're just filling in the time till it rears its head again ...   :thumbup:

Which will (totally unfairly) happen as soon as we lose another match! 

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leicesterlad1989

leicesterlad1989

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

While we held most of our player, what happen next is different. Our player aren't perform as they did, and Kante was a big loss. Moreover when we tried to put slimani and musa in Okazaki position. Draining lot of energy for our  already outnumbered midfielder. It's took us 6 months to realise and sign another player like ndidi. We have short brief of good run during shakey early term but then quickly decline after few match gone. 

 

While top 4 could lose their best player, but most likely they will earn so much money as their player won't like forcing way out of their club, or they could keep their best while losing better player just to replace them after. What happened to arsenal for some season after their winning title is odd ones. 

 

We have bigger issues than just the manager. While most of the title win player were still here they aren't the same beast anymore. Most of them are either aging or struggling to adapt to other way while most team are found out how to exploit our title win tactics. 

 

Both Southampton and Arsenal were underestimate their problem, and simplify it as just manager issues which worry me sir

My original response to you was regarding your comparisons to Southampton. Kante aside, we have pretty much recouped the money spent on Musa and made a significant profit on Mahrez. We have wasted a lot of money too. 

 

As for your quoted response, I agree, we do have more 'problems' than just the manager. We have an imbalanced squad for starters. Lets put it into perspective though, we are currently 7th. We may not finish there come what May but we are on target, as we speak, for our best ever finish, other than when we won the league. 

 

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Mike Oxlong

Mike Oxlong

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Very true, but to be totally fair he's also compounded the issue with some of his decisions. How often we continued with two CDM's when chasing a game or not able to open a team up. Little things like that then give people a reason to put it all on him.

 

I don't think he's a defensive manager, but he can be a little conservative. People then confuse the two.

 

He also sticks quite ridgedly to what he's doing. If it's not worked for 85 minutes it's unlikely to work in the last 5, so throw a curve ball, give them something to think about. Could be something as basic as chucking Harry up top for when we cross the ball in.

... rigidly .... 

 

Sorry, couldn’t  resist given all the love ;) 

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Hanan96

Hanan96

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, leicesterlad1989 said:

My original response to you was regarding your comparisons to Southampton. Kante aside, we have pretty much recouped the money spent on Musa and made a significant profit on Mahrez. We have wasted a lot of money too. 

 

As for your quoted response, I agree, we do have more 'problems' than just the manager. We have an imbalanced squad for starters. Lets put it into perspective though, we are currently 7th. We may not finish there come what May but we are on target, as we speak, for our best ever finish, other than when we won the league. 

 

I'm just worried that we might became them one day, thinking about profit while not realize we are in decline and then just simplify everything as manager issues. You got a good point regarding our final position. I hope the club hierarchy willl care more about progress rather than short term outcome 

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Nickfosse said:

I think you’re right on this Ric. 

We are struggling to break teams down at home who defend deep in numbers and nullify our counter attack threat. We are lacking the  incisive passing and ability to open defences up in the final third and that can make our efforts look turgid at times.

I agree that it’s an area that really needs to improve. 

The only thing I’d say is that this is not just a Puel problem. Once teams worked out that attacking us at home with a high defensive line played into our hands, we’ve struggled to break teams down both with Ranieri and Shakespeare towards the end of their reigns. I think the problems run deeper than the manager but I understand the frustration. 

Surely you have this the wrong way round Nick? It's a myth that every team comes to the KP to defend with 11 men behind the ball. It just looks that way because our build up is so painfully slow. 

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Pete from the USA

Pete from the USA

Posted
Posted (edited)

Come on Leicester City fans, let's be civil over Claude Puel

Gary Silke reflects on how City found a way to win at Everton but the debate amongst fans still rages

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/come-leicester-city-fans-lets-2388268

Edited by Pete from the USA
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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, l444ry said:

Surely you have this the wrong way round Nick? It's a myth that every team comes to the KP to defend with 11 men behind the ball. It just looks that way because our build up is so painfully slow. 

You do go to games don't you?

 

How shit were the games in the title winning season against West Brom, Newcastle, Saints, Palace away, Watford away. Or the next season where we we're utter shit and getting relegated. And then the start of the next season when another manager got sacked for being terrible against Hudds, Bournemouth and West Brom. 

 

Not every team comes to defend, see Watford the other week (fair play to them), the bigger teams don't come to defend also. But the others have had us over a barrel for a long time before Puel arrived. The counter is easy to combat so long as you don't want to commit people forward. 

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Nickfosse said:

I think you’re right on this Ric. 

We are struggling to break teams down at home who defend deep in numbers and nullify our counter attack threat. We are lacking the  incisive passing and ability to open defences up in the final third and that can make our efforts look turgid at times.

I agree that it’s an area that really needs to improve. 

The only thing I’d say is that this is not just a Puel problem. Once teams worked out that attacking us at home with a high defensive line played into our hands, we’ve struggled to break teams down both with Ranieri and Shakespeare towards the end of their reigns. I think the problems run deeper than the manager but I understand the frustration. 

Think you're right but it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, it's nothing new, it's been a problem for a long while well prior to Puel! Doesn't matter if it's Puel or any other manager, if you haven't got the players, you haven't got the players. Hopefully to be addressed in the summer.

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