The VAR thread

[StanSP]

26 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Just something I am curious about...

 

Does anyone know if the linesman flagged or picked up on Perez being offside?

 

Is it the kind of goal that without VAR checking it wouldn't have even been picked up that he was offside? (kind of goal where it would have kicked off on twitter after for the officials being crap and not picking it up)

 

Spurs players didn't complain about Perez being offside for the goal at all when it went in

No flag (same for their goal). 

 

It's exactly what fans of the club it happens against would moan about saying 'we need video technology' to rectify those errors. Now we have it, people still moan

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Maybe you were a defender in days gone by .....i was a forward and am unhappy that the interpretation to the mm using technology that isn’t up to the job means that valid goals are being disallowed .....

Haha I was as it happens! I think in the vast majority of situations it's more than adequate. There will be situations like today where the margin is incredibly fine but they're definitely the exception rather than the rule, and I'd sooner rely on the technology as it is than guesswork, which a lot of offside decisions historically have come down to. Think we'll agree to disagree on this one. I'm broadly in favour of VAR and though I agree there are problems with the way it's currently implemented, I'd rather stick with it and see if we can resolve them than chuck the whole thing away because it's not perfect.

[Bert]

One of the biggest things that’s bugging me about it is that referees are now scared to make decisions in case they finally get found out to be the incompetent prats that they are. 

 

No complaints about our VAR disallowed goal. Shocking that Spurs’ got chalked. 

[Super_horns]

Don't want to upset their mates incase they rely on said on pitch official for VAR in a future game.

 

 

[Aus Fox]

Other than for offside or handball, has a single decision been changed yet? Penalty, red card or do they just stick with the referees decisions?

[Arkie Bennett]

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but as an occasional photographer I know that zoom and wide angle lenses introduce distortion by bending straight lines or making parts of an image appear closer or further away than they actually are. Bearing this in mind, when the VAR is making a close call such as Son's offside yesterday, and they are comparing the positions of players who are not close to each other, and they introduce pixelation by magnifying the image, and they use lines that are not pixelated, all on a snapshot taken from an angle, how can they be confident in the decision?

Edited 22 September 2019 by Arkie Bennett

[Plastik Man]

10 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Just something I am curious about...

 

Does anyone know if the linesman flagged or picked up on Perez being offside?

 

Is it the kind of goal that without VAR checking it wouldn't have even been picked up that he was offside? (kind of goal where it would have kicked off on twitter after for the officials being crap and not picking it up)

 

Spurs players didn't complain about Perez being offside for the goal at all when it went in

Officials have been instructed to not flag in such situations, if they did then play would stop, and no goal. By not flagging it allows play to continue safe in the knowledge VAR will still check for off-side.

 

Interestingly Chilwell did appeal for off-side as soon as the ball was played to Son.

[st albans fox]

Thinking about ‘that goal’ on Saturday, should son’s offside have become irrelevant once cags had tackled him ?? 

 

doesnt kane’s recovery of the ball and cross become a different phase of the attack ? If son goes though and shoots and the rebound falls to another player then fair enough, the offside stands but in this instance cags makes the tackle and the ball goes backwards out of the box ...

 

apparently the scenario with VAR relates to whether the defending side has been able to ‘reset’ following the offside .... I could argue that in both spurs and Chelsea’s offsides at the weekend, the intervention of the defences in both cases was sufficient ??

[AKCJ]

On 21/09/2019 at 21:14, StanSP said:

Also, for anyone criticising VAR will have an effect celebrating goals, it had absolutely no effect on any of the 3 legit goals scored today, nor the 2 disallowed ones. 

 

Literally everyone up in arms and going batshit mental when Pereira and Maddison scored. Seriously in the heat of the moment we all celebrate like normal.

 

Also, I'm guessing that anyone who hates VAR didn't celebrate or cheer even a little bit when their goal was disallowed. I refuse to believe they just sat there and shrugged it off.

I definitely didn't go batshit mental with the one we had disallowed.

 

I saw the melee on the goal line and just knew the goal would be reviewed. Didn't consider it to be offside though.

 

I also thought Son was miles offside when the ball came over. Didn't think it'd be that close though.

[worth_the_wait]

One of the things that's so depressing about VAR is this ...

 

It is basically being used in all the situations where we never particularly wanted it to be,but NOT being used in all the instances we really wanted it to be used.

 

None of us ever said "I wish they'd bring in VAR, so they could flag for someone being half an inch offside".    That what is seems to be mostly being used for now.

 

On the other hand, most of don't mind VAR being around to stop the ball being punched into the net  (Maradona 1986), or vicious leg breaking fouls, or gobbing in someones hair.   I'd go further, and I'd like divers and injury feigners to be sent off by VAR.   But that's never gonna happen.

 

It seems that currently we have the worst of all worlds.

 

[StanSP]

33 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I definitely didn't go batshit mental with the one we had disallowed.

 

I saw the melee on the goal line and just knew the goal would be reviewed. Didn't consider it to be offside though.

 

I also thought Son was miles offside when the ball came over. Didn't think it'd be that close though.

All goals are reviewed tbf! I had no idea it'd be for offside either but I still celebrated a goal like I normally would.

And happily accepted the decision once it was overturned... 

[Pliskin]

Due to most modern sports having a form of a review system, football did need it. However, it will take a long time to perfect it, football is unlike any other sport, even facts are open to debate. I think we will see a huge evolution in the game over the coming years, potential changes in rules and new technology being used to assist referees. In the grand scheme of things it is a good idea once it is mastered, with all of the shenanigans that go on in some competitions and some of the glaring mistakes that cost games it is a necessity.  

[UniFox21]

The minute you start to see "VAR Review" on the screen for any goal it almost always means its being overturned for something

[KrefelderFox666]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Thinking about ‘that goal’ on Saturday, should son’s offside have become irrelevant once cags had tackled him ?? 

 

doesnt kane’s recovery of the ball and cross become a different phase of the attack ? If son goes though and shoots and the rebound falls to another player then fair enough, the offside stands but in this instance cags makes the tackle and the ball goes backwards out of the box ...

 

apparently the scenario with VAR relates to whether the defending side has been able to ‘reset’ following the offside .... I could argue that in both spurs and Chelsea’s offsides at the weekend, the intervention of the defences in both cases was sufficient ??

Absolutely not. If Son was flagged offside, Kane would never have recovered the ball, thus never playing the ball to Aurier. It's not like it happened 5 minutes before, it was seconds and all in the same move.

 

If, for example, Soyuncu tackled Son and play went on with Leicester taking the ball to midfield, then losing it and Spurs starting another attack, it would have been different.

[KrefelderFox666]

43 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

One of the things that's so depressing about VAR is this ...

 

It is basically being used in all the situations where we never particularly wanted it to be,but NOT being used in all the instances we really wanted it to be used.

 

None of us ever said "I wish they'd bring in VAR, so they could flag for someone being half an inch offside".    That what is seems to be mostly being used for now.

 

On the other hand, most of don't mind VAR being around to stop the ball being punched into the net  (Maradona 1986), or vicious leg breaking fouls, or gobbing in someones hair.   I'd go further, and I'd like divers and injury feigners to be sent off by VAR.   But that's never gonna happen.

 

It seems that currently we have the worst of all worlds.

 

I think the difficulty is the fact that VAR should only be used when the ref has made a clear error (or missed seeing something). This is where it gets interesting though. Penalties and handball (except the new rule) are very difficult to get "right" because the laws are a little open to interpretation. Therefore, if the referee makes a decision and it wasn't a clear Maradona style handball or chop down in the box, VAR will not overrule (or vice versa if the ref gives a penalty and it's harsh but can be given).

 

Offsides on the other hand are clear, it's offside or it's not. So that's why we are getting these mm decisions. However, having said that, they are not really applying the obvious mistake rule here. A linesman who doesn't flag a marginal offside hasn't really made an error, a linesman who doesn't flag someone a few yards offside has made an error (loosely termed).

 

So, my suggestion/view is that for marginal offsides/onsides, VAR doesn't check/overrule. So Son's on the weekend would have been played on and not ruled out. Whereas if a player is clearly offside, then the decision on pitch is overturned. Basically, if you need to draw lines and stop/start to work out where the pass was and if the player is then offside or not, leave the decision to stand. If you can watch a replay without needing to draw lines and can say it's offside, then overrule it. I think many would agree.

 

And of course in general, VAR needs to be quicker, or at least the notification of a review needs to be communicated quicker. Video refereeing works fine in rugby. It's all about letting the fans know what is going on as soon as possible. At the minute it can be a goal scored, celebration, walk back to centre circle and suddenly people find out it is being reviewed. Much too long and unclear communication to fans.

[Corky]

If VAR wasn't around, they'd be highlighting the offsides and saying they need to be spotted and errors taken out etc. Now they are and it isn't what was wanted?

 

I'd get rid of it but it is here to stay and we have to put up with the changes. 

[Stadt]

15 minutes ago, Corky said:

If VAR wasn't around, they'd be highlighting the offsides and saying they need to be spotted and errors taken out etc. Now they are and it isn't what was wanted?

 

I'd get rid of it but it is here to stay and we have to put up with the changes. 

It's definitely going nowhere if everybody has this attitude.

 

I can't see it ever not being a convoluted inconsistent mess tbh

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

The minute you start to see "VAR Review" on the screen for any goal it almost always means its being overturned for something

Not necessarily.

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Nothing about the Son one had much to do with VAR. 

 

It was a tight offside decision. You’ve them like that where they look level and it’s given or not. 

 

So any fault isnt isn’t to do with VAR per se. 

 

And people are talking about ‘clear and obvious’ but that isn’t applied to offsides. 

[UniFox21]

8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not necessarily.

 

 

Oh I agree, but generally, every goal ruled against has "VAR REVIEW" brought up in the screen. Whereas in all other cases the screen is never flashed up 

[Rusko187]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

It's definitely going nowhere if everybody has this attitude.

 

I can't see it ever not being a convoluted inconsistent mess tbh

How is it a convoluted inconsistent mess? It's a video replay?!

 

It's the morons that are using it are the problem, in the Son case though they were correct.

[ARTY_FOX]

It just annoys me that because it was against spurs it was a terrible injustice, yet when it went in west ham's favour vs man city on the opening day it was a terrific addition that would finally rid the league of goals that shouldn't be. 

[Chester Dontlie]

I'm still a big fan of VAR, despite some annoyances and short-lived controversies (which are rather scarce, like 1 decision in 10 maybe) I would be livid if we were to revert to the old pre-VAR times.

Just saw the higlights of Yanited vs Arse game and there was a hilarious offside call by the apparently blind lino (who was only few yards away and in line with the players) disallowing Aubeyang's goal. It wasn't 'by the width of a hair' decision like ours vs Spuds but he was 2-3 yards onside and it was shocking error by the ref when you look at the replays. Luckily the main referee got the call from the VAR room and they promptly reverted it. Last season, ManU would finish the game with 3 points in the bag, there would be a controversy about the blind/partial ref, this season the wrong decison was averted justice is done, ArsenalTv won't have anything to bitch about as far as the refereeing is concerned, and obviously this is a better result for us - the bigger distance between Leicester and these midtable teams, the better our chances to get to Europe next season! So thank you VAR for straightening things up. For me, the beautiful game isn't ruined yet 

 

[brucey]

Over the course of the season, the VAR effect of minimising big club ref bias will be noticeably significant 

[ThaiFox]

On 01/10/2019 at 23:42, Chester Dontlie said:

I'm still a big fan of VAR, despite some annoyances and short-lived controversies (which are rather scarce, like 1 decision in 10 maybe) I would be livid if we were to revert to the old pre-VAR times.

Just saw the higlights of Yanited vs Arse game and there was a hilarious offside call by the apparently blind lino (who was only few yards away and in line with the players) disallowing Aubeyang's goal. It wasn't 'by the width of a hair' decision like ours vs Spuds but he was 2-3 yards onside and it was shocking error by the ref when you look at the replays. Luckily the main referee got the call from the VAR room and they promptly reverted it. Last season, ManU would finish the game with 3 points in the bag, there would be a controversy about the blind/partial ref, this season the wrong decison was averted justice is done, ArsenalTv won't have anything to bitch about as far as the refereeing is concerned, and obviously this is a better result for us - the bigger distance between Leicester and these midtable teams, the better our chances to get to Europe next season! So thank you VAR for straightening things up. For me, the beautiful game isn't ruined yet 

 

Unlike you I'm not a fan of VAR because it causes just as much controversy before it came in.

 

I agree with your comment about the Aubeyang goal.

 

But then I watched the whole of the Spuds v Bayern match yesterday and I couldn't believe VAR did not overturn two penalty decisions.

 

The first was the one given, which both commentators said was never a penalty. The ref gave it, it went to VAR and was given and Kane scored.

 

Later in the match, Danny Rose clearly sliced the legs away from a Bayern forward, but the ref waved it away as a dive. Again it went to VAR and it was not given. Rose got nowhere near the ball and clearly took the forwards legs. Again both commentators said a definite penalty and they could not believe it wasn't given.

 

The only reason the commentators could come up with as to why both these decisions were not overturned was to 'not undermine the referees decisions'.

 

Well, if that's the case, just what is the point of VAR?

 

And if those decisions had been reversed the score would have ended as 1-8 not 2-7!