Mads Hermansen

[Paninistickers]

7 minutes ago, Hammo said:

You reap what you sow. Eventually.

 

The chances of going through the whole season playing those ridiculously unnecessary - dare I say cocky - balls to the keeper in front of his goal and not getting caught out once are minimal.

 

Playing out from the back as a strategy is fine. But I can’t be the only one who gets edgy every time we use this stupidly risky tactic.

Manager has still lots to learn from his Italian predecessors..

 

Remember how Ranieri set schmeichel up to kick long into channels, and if it went out for a throw in, that was fine as we could set up easier to defend and win the ball back. 

 

As the previous poster

suggest, I wonder if an emperical study has been done into goal kicks being taken in this fashion. And if so, a further analysis of what is safest / most effective at what stages of the game?

 

Playing percentages isnt all bad. Particularly in late phases of the game. 

[cc_star]

I don't like it personally, however how many times have we done it Vs how many goals have we conceded from it?

 

It's almost certainly nowhere near as dangerous as it seems

[Unabomber]

Haven’t read many posts but just hope people don’t knee jerk react and blame the tactics or Mads. Just an error and he has been great so far this season, we are lucky to have such a good goalie. Need to make sure he feels the love. 

[StanSP]

Not bothered about the mistake yesterday. Not as much as several others anyway. He's been key to some really good moves and sometimes goals, let alone probably saving us points far more than losing them for us. 

 

Some examples below...

 

 

Not everything will always be perfect. There will be mistakes along the way. Learning from them is the main thing.

[coolhandfox]

Pretty sure it would have been disallowed in the PL by Var.

 

Birmingham players feet are over the line before Faes takes the goal kick.

[Dr The Singh]

Too much hype on this kid, when things go wrong.......

 

Let the kid be and we will see what happens 

 

 

 

 

. 

[KFS]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

Not bothered about the mistake yesterday. Not as much as several others anyway. He's been key to some really good moves and sometimes goals, let alone probably saving us points far more than losing them for us. 

 

Some examples below...

 

 

Not everything will always be perfect. There will be mistakes along the way. Learning from them is the main thing.

We’ll score 1-2 of these away from home this week as desperate relegation fodder feel the need to press for their home crowd. Mads will be forgiven because of it.

[Chrysalis]

Just seen the goal we conceded in last game, no point passing back to the keeper like that for him to do what the defender could have done himself.

 

It reminds me of when Arsenal under Wenger had a penalty taker pass it to another player to try and get a fancy goal and it all went tits up, Wenger stated afterwards he told his players to not attempt that again.

[cruzFOX]

A simple mistake from simply not passing it out quicker. I don’t think Madds will do this again. He knows he’s on notice and how dangerous he made the game for us. We are now at a critical stage where we need to illiminate errors in front of our goal (goes for wout farce too) and be more clinical in front of the opposition goal (daka/fatawu etc)

[Mike1983]

Top10 Championship xG

[FLAN]

It’s the timing of it that annoyed me. 2 mins to half time is surely a time to play the % ball

[Lionator]

Cock ups happen, we won. 

[StriderHiryu]

12 minutes ago, FLAN said:

It’s the timing of it that annoyed me. 2 mins to half time is surely a time to play the % ball

Yeah for me this is the most fair take. The way we play we actually WANT the striker to rush the keeper to take him out of the game to play around him. There is and always will be a risk doing this, bit on average as we've seen the net outcome is worth it.

 

But in a HUGE game for us, in the 44th minute and one up, that is when we need to be savvy. Do what John Ruddy was doing all game and take ages on the goal kick, make the clock count down. Kicking long here may have turned the ball over and given it back to Brum, but they were doing nothing. It wasn't a case of us being under the kosh and desperately needing someone to help relieve the pressure.

 

At the end of the game what pleased me is that we ran the ball into the corners for once. It was the % play to see the game out and secure the points.

[Twitcher]

I get that it's the modern approach and it makes sure you keep possession. What I think can happen, not just Mads, but all the back four is avoid the hesitation. They seem to always wait a few seconds then make the pass they were always going to make. Just needs to quicken up and be slicker, then it mirrors passing on the rest of the pitch. It seems intentional at times to draw an attacker and I don't really get that.

Edited 8 April by Twitcher

[adejo92]

17 hours ago, Unabomber said:

Haven’t read many posts but just hope people don’t knee jerk react and blame the tactics or Mads. Just an error and he has been great so far this season, we are lucky to have such a good goalie. Need to make sure he feels the love. 

There's 100% reason to blame the tactics.

 

I don't blame Mads, he's forced to play a certain way that is risky and has very little margin for error. Almost been caught out numerous times so inevitable be punished at some point.

 

Mads has been brilliant this season and I genuinely can't see a stand out weakness in his game.

 

I'm probably in the minority,  but I can't get used to this suicide ball between our keeper & defence whereby we pass to people who are actively under pressure. The ball only ends up in the same area a single safe pass could have achieved.

 

It's not just us though,  you see a lot of teams do it.

 

Edited 8 April by adejo92

[Nolucklcfc]

I think we’ll let him have that one 

[filbertway]

Tell you what's mad - look at the 2 cbs, somehow they're also totally unaware that Stansfield is closing down on the keeper. Not one player in the picture reacts and shouts or gestures to Mads

 

Do we practice passing out from the back without anyone pressuring the defence and keeper in training. Mad that not the keeper or one outfield player was alert to that.

 

Holding onto the ball makes sense and there's a time and place to do it. But christ - be aware of your surroundings if the opposition had 5 players camped on the edge of your box and you want your CBs and Keeper to pass their way out of it then you're taking unnecessary risks. 

 

If the opposition has half their team on the outside of your box - it makes sense to me to clear all of them and go long - even if the opposition win the first contact you've got a great opportunity to pick up the 2nd ball while half their team are stood 20 yards from our goal.

[RowlattsFox]

The centre backs taking goal kicks happens a lot now, and it's pretty common tactic for anyone who isn't trying to time waste. Not sure where the idea has come from and what the benefit is. 

[Tommy Fresh]

18 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

There's 100% reason to blame the tactics.

 

I don't blame Mads, he's forced to play a certain way that is risky and has very little margin for error. Almost been caught out numerous times so inevitable be punished at some point.

 

Mads has been brilliant this season and I genuinely can't see a stand out weakness in his game.

 

I'm probably in the minority,  but I can't get used to this suicide ball between our keeper & defence whereby we pass to people who are actively under pressure. The ball only ends up in the same area a single safe pass could have achieved.

 

It's not just us though,  you see a lot of teams do it.

 

Although you could argue we don't sign a keeper as good as Hermansen if we aren't playing this style of football, and we'd of stuck with Iversen. 

[lcfc sheff]

I think we’re incredibly lucky to have him 

[KasperSlice]

Found it mind boggling seeing big numbers of people in the kop swearing at him for the mistake on Saturday. What do they think doing that is going to do? 

[Pliskin]

To be fair, watching the goal back. If he doesn’t take that touch out of his feet and popped the pass into the midfield sooner that wouldn’t have happened. 
 

Id still rather have him do this than aimlessly lump the ball upfield…… 

[Costock_Fox]

5 minutes ago, KasperSlice said:

Found it mind boggling seeing big numbers of people in the kop swearing at him for the mistake on Saturday. What do they think doing that is going to do? 

Honestly mental. I said at the start of the season, playing like this will see us concede some horrendous goals and we have, but we are top of the league with a game in hand and 6 to play.

 

A complete joke having a go at him.

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Tell you what's mad - look at the 2 cbs, somehow they're also totally unaware that Stansfield is closing down on the keeper. Not one player in the picture reacts and shouts or gestures to Mads

 

Do we practice passing out from the back without anyone pressuring the defence and keeper in training. Mad that not the keeper or one outfield player was alert to that.

 

Holding onto the ball makes sense and there's a time and place to do it. But christ - be aware of your surroundings if the opposition had 5 players camped on the edge of your box and you want your CBs and Keeper to pass their way out of it then you're taking unnecessary risks. 

 

If the opposition has half their team on the outside of your box - it makes sense to me to clear all of them and go long - even if the opposition win the first contact you've got a great opportunity to pick up the 2nd ball while half their team are stood 20 yards from our goal.

Its not mad. As mentioned before the strategy is to pull the attacker in, make him commit which creates additional space. Faes and Vesty won't have thought anything was wrong right until the very last moment as the goal is to draw the attacker in.  

 

Whilst i don't think the process is mad (although can be heart in mouth stuff), I agree with @StriderHiryu that playing a quick GK at 44 mins in the first half is wrong. Wind down the clock as much as possible and try and give them nothing to sniff at.  In this instance, they should clock that Stansfied is practically in the box, and then wave all the players up the field with Wout and Jannick doing their slowest walks ever. Can waste nearly a minute with that Pickford textbook move.

[Golden Fox]

My lad is the goalkeeper for his U12 team, and his coach is very keen on playing out from the back. As tough as this is to watch at Championship level, its 100 times worse at that level!!! Given the weakest players on his team are the full backs and the quality of pitches is generally awful, I've seen a fair number of cock-ups this year (and a lot of strikers encroaching in the penalty box), but glad to sat he's not done anything remotely as bad as what Hermanson did on Saturday! I think it was a combination of the striker having an extra yard (illegally) and Mads just not being aware of the situation - but without doing it to death, as others have said, he's a great keeper, he got a good reception coming off at half time & he will learn from it.

 

But one of the videos the coach shared with the boys on why he wants them to play that way was:

 

I know there are various tactics threads with similar videos, but a lot of these examples show Faes doing nothing different to what other teams are doing. (Although I do think he should have looked up at where the Birmingham players were before taking the goal kick, and should have delayed if he saw the striker coming into the area). This isn't quite the empirical evidence asked for, but it does show a few examples of why teams are doing this and well with a watch before complaining about the manager or style of play.

 

(And yes, the last match he played, they lost 2-1 with the winner being the opposing goalkeeper hoofing the ball forward - ball took one bounce & their striker lobbed the ball into the net - which was as good an advert for route one football as you could see...)