The Enzo Thread

[Langston]

16 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

my fault, i meant as champions how many have lost 11 matches

 

I say a few - Sunderland were champions with 12 defeats in the mid 00s - WBA and Reading have since been champions with 11 defeats. Plenty of sides going up with 10 defeats or more amongst that. 

Edited 4 May by Langston

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Add caveat that my thirteen y o was charged with said task 

(and he has form 😄) 

If we're relegated next season, sack him!

[Langston]

19 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

my fault, i meant as champions how many have lost 11 matches

P.S Phenomenal username - Eddie, fetch me a Dr pepper from the fridge 

[kingfox]

Wanting him in or out has pretty much fluctuated on a weekly basis recently  

 

But now the season has ended, I’m very much 50/50. 
 

I’d be willing to give him a chance next season, but only if the board can give him the tools that he requires. Numerous players in this team just don’t suit his style, some of which will luckily be out the door on free transfers. 
 

More technical quality is simply required to properly make things work, I don’t really agree with the comments stating that heavy spending will only make this work. Some key tools were signed last summer for under £10 million, Hermansen & Winks being the main examples. 
 

But if Enzo feels like the board can’t deliver on what he requires, then the best thing to do is mutually part ways while his stock is high. 
 

The dream scenario would be Rudkin getting pushed out the door instead, but it seems him and Top are very much joined at the hip. 

[Tuna]

This is basically sliding doors for the football club.

Reform and unite towards a goal of really moving the football club forward with a real structure or continuing with the same failure that has caused relegation and put the club in a financial shit mess.

 

Enzo could easily just say thanks and move on with the title in the bag; he is not. He wants to stay and help the club and himself progress together. Give him what he wants Top and let us all move forward together.

[volpeazzurro]

7 hours ago, Tuna said:

This is basically sliding doors for the football club.

Reform and unite towards a goal of really moving the football club forward with a real structure or continuing with the same failure that has caused relegation and put the club in a financial shit mess.

 

Enzo could easily just say thanks and move on with the title in the bag; he is not. He wants to stay and help the club and himself progress together. Give him what he wants Top and let us all move forward together.

I'm afraid to me that's pie in the sky.

 

Top couldn't give Enzo what he wants even if he wanted to, the rules don't allow it. Even potential moneybags Sheikhs at Newcastle can't give Howe that.

 

You can't usually play champagne and oyster football with beer and chips players, anyone remember Paolo Sousa?

 

Enzo can't play Pep Guadiola football without Manchester City players. See Vincent Kompany re this also.

 

I think Enzo has some great attributes but also spouts some pretentious utter bollocks at times.

 

Yes, possession football is to some extent the way forward but not possession for possession's sake like the Rodgers offering. It's what you do with the possession that counts. Against Southampton we had only 30%+ type possession and scored 5 goals, spookily a bit like 2015/16, what's that all about? Did they just ignore the manager for the night after Vardy's team talk or was it just poor tactics by the Southampton manager?

 

I still maintain that whilst it's nice to have an underlying identity, a good manager is one that utilises and plays to the strengths of the players that he's actually got and not those that he wishes to have. You couldn't back in the day play Barcelona football without Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Messi and if you played them and tried to copy or match them toe to toe they'd murder you!

 

With the squad we've had compared to say Ipswich, we should absolutely have been vying for promotion.

 

There will undoubtedly be some new incomings in the summer and Enzo will clearly instill his systems and tactics into them. This is good but he's also got to have learned from this season himself and kick on too.

 

If he, like Kompany, is trying to emulate a manager like Pep then they need to realise that Pep isn't one dimensional, his systems and tactics are adaptable and changeable and Enzo too needs to adapt to the opposition before him sometimes and not try and play a 'one style fits all' brand of football regardless of the ability of his players. Style over substance just won't cut it, it's partly what got us relegated in the first place!

 

Regardless of the perhaps pressure off mentality yesterday, the football itself was a good example of the repetitive crap that will see us beaten soundly next year. A poor manager like Rodgers blames the tools he has to work with. Enzo had a good squad this year. I never heard McKenna moaning, he just quietly went about his business without any pretentiousness. I'm 50/50 re Enzo but for now behind him. He also needs to learn and progress too.

[Stuntman_Mike]

I'd love for him to stay, I just hope a decision is made quickly. I don't want it dragging into pre season and making next season's challenge more difficult than it already is.

[Product of 84]

I'm frustrated with Enzo. I like the style against teams that come to play against us, like Southampton did. However, if we can't overcome Plymouth, Millwall and Blackburn playing a low block (I think that's what we call it) then how will we overcome teams that do that to us in the Prem. Especially, when you look at say Crystal Palace and the quality they have that can hit you on the counter. 

 

Enzo said he tried something for the future yesterday. Was it to invert the CB rather than the full back? 

 

To break teams down that have packed the central area of the pitch you need to either get behind them (wings) or go directly through them. You need to create jeapody which means shooting. We've lost our way here. We will need a pair of 8's that can do this. But one will also need defensive attributes and pace to cover the inverted full back when it goes wrong. 

 

In the prem, I think Enzo's system will require our best players to be our defenders. They need to be great at everything and have pace. This is very rare and why teams will pay huge sums of money for players who have these attributes. Fofana being an example of the money teams are willing to spend and even Maguire (great defender but maybe not world class). 

 

I worry where we will find our CBs that have pace, size, presence, strength, the ability to control and play a football and positioning sense. 

 

So we do need a plan when teams come for a point, park the bus and shut up shop. This is where we need a plan B Enzo.

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

So we do need a plan when teams come for a point, park the bus and shut up shop. This is where we need a plan B Enzo.

No one will be parking the bus against us next year. Would get that out of you thinking. 

[Chelmofox]

9 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

You can't usually play champagne and oyster football with beer and chips players, anyone remember Paolo Sousa?

 

Enzo can't play Pep Guadiola football without Manchester City players. See Vincent Kompany re this also.

I find this a slightly lazy point. Pep needs 'champagne' players to win multiple titles, FA Cups and compete for Champions Leagues. We are miles off that. Enzo himself in his last prezza said that the goal would be to survive. 'All' () he needs to do a navigate that with a points deduction and help build the foundations moving forward. If we can avoid relegation, it would put our club in a great position.

 

The bottom 6 of the PL is full of teams playing different styles. For some reason, the only one that gets pointed at is Kompany's system. Yet the 'stuff' that Brentford plays has lost them 18 games this season and Forest 19 games, and we all love Luton but their form makes our 2022 season look like we were mid table. But somehow that is all fair game?

 

If the club can recruit reasonably well (which in fairness they did do last summer), then i don't see the issue with carrying on this project. 

[Matt]

19 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

I'm frustrated with Enzo. I like the style against teams that come to play against us, like Southampton did. However, if we can't overcome Plymouth, Millwall and Blackburn playing a low block (I think that's what we call it) then how will we overcome teams that do that to us in the Prem. Especially, when you look at say Crystal Palace and the quality they have that can hit you on the counter. 

 

Enzo said he tried something for the future yesterday. Was it to invert the CB rather than the full back? 

 

To break teams down that have packed the central area of the pitch you need to either get behind them (wings) or go directly through them. You need to create jeapody which means shooting. We've lost our way here. We will need a pair of 8's that can do this. But one will also need defensive attributes and pace to cover the inverted full back when it goes wrong. 

 

In the prem, I think Enzo's system will require our best players to be our defenders. They need to be great at everything and have pace. This is very rare and why teams will pay huge sums of money for players who have these attributes. Fofana being an example of the money teams are willing to spend and even Maguire (great defender but maybe not world class). 

 

I worry where we will find our CBs that have pace, size, presence, strength, the ability to control and play a football and positioning sense. 

 

So we do need a plan when teams come for a point, park the bus and shut up shop. This is where we need a plan B Enzo.

I was listening to something the other day, they weren't talking about and specific team, just the game in general, inane possession for possession sake and they were saying they'd love to see what would happen when two teams came up against each other with a low block, a game of 'you have to ball, no, you have the ball'. It's never gonna happen, but it'd be interesting to see what would happen and ultimately you'd expect it to force a change from one or both teams.

 

Fwiw, I find possession for possession sake just as negative as teams who play a low block, if anything teams who play a low block, have less possession are more exciting in my eyes, for example and I appreciate this isn't always the case, we've beat many teams who have played a low block this season but the teams you make mentioned beat us and we got our biggest win of the season with a very low possession stat.

[Izzy]

One thing I've noticed recently is how much the players say they love him (Winks said on Football Focus yesterday he's the best manager he's ever played under)

 

If the players love him, we've got to find a way a keeping hold of him.

[Chelmofox]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

One thing I've noticed recently is how much the players say they love him (Winks said on Football Focus yesterday he's the best manager he's ever played under)

 

If the players love him, we've got to find a way a keeping hold of him.

Vardy mentioned in his interview yesterday after lifting the trophy. Pointed out that the training staff were doing 13 hour days and the dedication was off the charts. 

[SafewayFox]

Like most (appear to be) I’m genuinely torn or potentially not overly concerned about Enzo’s future.

 

I can’t overlook the toxic 5hitshow he walked into but also feel it’s lazy to ignore some of his outlandish comments to the media (I’ll walk, Leeds pre-match obvious examples).

 

In a nutshell though, the players love him, there is always hope that he’s learnt from some of his errors (late substitutions, over relying on certain players) so think him staying would most likely be best for all parties? 

[Sunbury Fox]

42 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

No one will be parking the bus against us next year. Would get that out of you thinking. 

Exactly. The games against Southampton this season are the template for how we will need to play in the PL. We have some serious pace and dribbling ability on the counter in the likes of Fatawu, Mavididi and KDH. That's what we need to utilise. 

 

I won't lie, though, the last few months of this season have been hugely underwhelming on the whole; we somehow lost more games than we won of the last 14 matches, including against a series of teams on the brink of relegation. If Enzo and his staff are so thorough and hard working, and we have by far the biggest budget in the league, this really should not have happened and it does not bode well for next season. 

[Ric Flair]

10 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

This is it for me. I don’t expect anyone to understand it and I completely appreciate anyone who wants to criticise me for it. But if we have the parade tomorrow and Monday get a tweet that Leicester City have parted company with Enzo Maresca, I’d probably shrug and say ok, cool.

 

If I’m trying to make sense of why I’m feeling like that, I can say I think Enzo has a lot of good qualities. But also think there are issues and perhaps both parties are not suited. One of those issues is his lack of basic professionalism. 3/4 times this season, happily criticising board, fans etc. in some cases, absolutely warranted but we’ve had a manager before who was happy to wash his laundry in public and belittle/criticise the club in public and it ended in tears for us. A few grumbles, fine, all managers do it but it’s at risk of being consistent and that’s not on for me.
 

I also think we cannot fund his dream and it’s unfair on both parties to pretend we can. That’s another recipe for disaster.
 

Enzo has done a good job this year. The most impressive is getting us out of the rut at the end. Well done. However, this isn’t O’Neil/Pearson fears if he goes. Well not for me. 

I don't mind him having such high standards and principles that mean he'll challenge the board and if it doesn't align then he'll leave. That's far more honourable to me than how Brendan played it. Contributed to a decline, gobbed off and essentially was waiting around to be sacked.

 

The issue is, the problems that precede Enzo don't miraculously disappear over night in regards to finances. However, those who we believe to have had a major hand in this are still sat at their desks and it's fascinating to see he's perhaps the closest we've seen to openly declare we need new directors such as a new DOF. 

 

He's unlikely to win this battle, but maybe he casts enough light that it's the beginning of the end for some.

 

That I respect him for. It's the unwavering ideology he had that I don't think suits this situation and has left me incredibly annoyed with him. It'll only get worse when we're losing more matches. Maybe I'm irrational but pragmatism is going to be needed without the budget required to match his specific principles. I'm possibly demanding something from a manager that is impossible to get completely spot on.

 

Plenty to like about Enzo. The football is good, he's cut from a different cloth to most which is refreshing but I'd still shake hands and see him off to pastures new with plenty of goodwill all around.

[when_you're_smiling]

35 minutes ago, Izzy said:

One thing I've noticed recently is how much the players say they love him (Winks said on Football Focus yesterday he's the best manager he's ever played under)

 

If the players love him, we've got to find a way a keeping hold of him.

They wouldn’t have gone round his house for the promotion party if they didn’t. Don’t think I’ve ever heard of it happening before. Would have thought you’d want to party as far away from the manager as possible.

 

There’s bigger problems with the club than the manager at the minute and hopefully they’re all sat together now and working out the plan for the pre-season and transfer window.

[Beechey]

13 hours ago, don_danbury said:

my fault, i meant as champions how many have lost 11 matches

Equally, how many clubs net 31 wins? Last club to do it was us in 2013/14. Only other clubs in the 21st century are Reading and Man City, who also won 31 each.

Edited 5 May by Beechey

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just now, when_you're_smiling said:

They wouldn’t have gone round his house for the promotion party if they didn’t. Don’t think I’ve ever heard of it happening before. Would have thought you’d want to party as far away from the manager as possible.

 

There’s bigger problems with the club than the manager at the minute and hopefully they’re all sat together now and working out the plan for the pre-season and transfer window.

Agreed the very fact the majority of the players love him speaks volumes for his man management, coaching and the buy in to his methods and philosophy. There is a real togetherness amongst the group and whilst it hasn’t been plain sailing, they have dug in and got over the line. 
 

Anyone who thinks this is as good as it gets under Enzo, will be quite shocked and surprised, I think another summer of refreshing the squad with players who fit his style and profile and another pre season of implementing his ideas and I think we will look a very different proposition next season. 
 

I still believe this season has seen him have to use lots of square pegs in round holes and make use of players that couldn’t be shifted, he was hamstrung by losing Casadei and not being able to replace him which left us woefully short of options in midfield especially when injuries and fatigue kicked in. 
 

For me his and his coaching teams attention to detail, preparation and ability to improve pretty much every player. albeit many have a ceiling, should not be underplayed. 
 

Yes he made mistakes along the way but he is a relatively new manager, but he will have leant and developed so much from the experiences of this season, I honestly think if we can keep him we will go from strength to strength. We have been crying out for a manager who will take an interest in promoting our a academy players and giving them a roadmap to the first team, we have finally got that, and he is also prepared to challenge other departments of the club that are not performing, are we sure we want to let a manager of that ilk walk away so easily to probably be replaced by a run of the mill has been who becomes just a puppet of the club. 
 

Not for me, I hope we keep him and he can really help shape the club in a similar way to Pearson and lay down some really strong foundations for the future. Remember Pearson split opinion amongst the fanbase and at times could be stubborn and have questionable runs of form but much in the same way the players loved him and he set such high standards and expectations that led to our greatest ever achievement. 
 

I see a lot of similarities between Enzo and Nige in the fact they both inherited a right old basket case of a club and through hard work, dedication and a fair amount of bloody mindedness, dragged it kicking and screaming into a bright new era. I really ain’t sure I want to see Enzo leave as he is our best hope of getting this club back on track and becoming a forward thinking innovative club again. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

I find this a slightly lazy point. Pep needs 'champagne' players to win multiple titles, FA Cups and compete for Champions Leagues. We are miles off that. Enzo himself in his last prezza said that the goal would be to survive. 'All' () he needs to do a navigate that with a points deduction and help build the foundations moving forward. If we can avoid relegation, it would put our club in a great position.

 

The bottom 6 of the PL is full of teams playing different styles. For some reason, the only one that gets pointed at is Kompany's system. Yet the 'stuff' that Brentford plays has lost them 18 games this season and Forest 19 games, and we all love Luton but their form makes our 2022 season look like we were mid table. But somehow that is all fair game?

 

If the club can recruit reasonably well (which in fairness they did do last summer), then i don't see the issue with carrying on this project. 

The point with Kompany is that despite spending over 100m in the summer, he persisted with a 'philosophy' that his players couldn't fulfil. 

 

Brentford I agree to some extent but, without the goals of their suspended main striker and injuries, having not spent any money it should be expected.

 

Forest's previous line of recruitment seemed to be akin to throwing a dart at a dart board and choosing quite a few other clubs failures and others from the lucky bag section. 

 

Luton didn't seemingly invest at all for their own club reasons but had a good go I suppose. 

 

You surely can't deny that Pep has champagne players, sometimes 2 or 3 in a number of positions with the skill sets and intelligence to adapt. I'm not for one minute saying that it's all about money, because it takes an exceptional manager to organise, continually motivate and mould them. What I am saying is that if you haven't got those sort of players, you can't necessarily adopt a highly skilled fast moving level of possession football.

 

Sometimes, as we've found out this year from a number of opposition managers, you have to adapt and stifle the opposition or seek out a different way. Kompany in this respect seemed a one trick pony with a rinse and repeat idealistic attitude. 

 

I do agree however that the Premiership appears to have leagues within leagues and even this year we might have survived. Next year we'll be promoted with 3 of this year's counterparts. We will all make purchases as will existing Premiership clubs (though in our case who knows what the budget will be like). Nevertheless, to survive, Enzo, for the good of the team, will at times will have to adapt and sometimes suppress his inner Pep. It will be more about survival, less about the beautiful game! The latter, if he wants it, is best attained over a longer period of time and a few transfer windows. He needs as a young manager to learn how to walk before he can run.

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't mind him having such high standards and principles that mean he'll challenge the board and if it doesn't align then he'll leave. That's far more honourable to me than how Brendan played it. Contributed to a decline, gobbed off and essentially was waiting around to be sacked.

 

The issue is, the problems that precede Enzo don't miraculously disappear over night in regards to finances. However, those who we believe to have had a major hand in this are still sat at their desks and it's fascinating to see he's perhaps the closest we've seen to openly declare we need new directors such as a new DOF. 

 

He's unlikely to win this battle, but maybe he casts enough light that it's the beginning of the end for some.

 

That I respect him for. It's the unwavering ideology he had that I don't think suits this situation and has left me incredibly annoyed with him. It'll only get worse when we're losing more matches. Maybe I'm irrational but pragmatism is going to be needed without the budget required to match his specific principles. I'm possibly demanding something from a manager that is impossible to get completely spot on.

 

Plenty to like about Enzo. The football is good, he's cut from a different cloth to most which is refreshing but I'd still shake hands and see him off to pastures new with plenty of goodwill all around.

Oh, his high standards are definitely in the plus column. I disagree with his approach and especially his use of Guillem to get it across. I think that weakens the club (but I appreciate with the numptys around him why he NEEDS to do it).

 

Having said that, my brother mentioned something which probably explains the approach. Especially re: Guillem. He told me to remember Guillem appearing on Skys La Liga programming late 90s/early 2000 (where Guillem made his name in this country). When he was talking about clubs, giving insights, his approach was identical - there was no “hidden” approach and the “drama” was given in a similar, reveal all approach. 
 

Maybe both are just approaching it in the same way. 

[JimmyC74]

A lot to admire in Enzo. I think he has a ruthless, stubborn character who will push the Club but whether we can provide him with the profile of player he needs, in sufficient numbers, is to be seen.

[ARM1968]

When all around you are playing possession based football surely a return to 15/16 style is key?  It worked then, it worked against Southampton - it usually does work. Trying to fight possession with possession next season without the tools required will be a recipe for one thing. 

[coolhandfox]

I find it interesting how Enzo has said similar things to Rodgers and one is seen as a pariah the other a saint.

 

Should there be changes made? Yes 100% but we need to be careful of giving any manager whether that be Enzo or anyone else to much power.

[FOXSE]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't mind him having such high standards and principles that mean he'll challenge the board and if it doesn't align then he'll leave. That's far more honourable to me than how Brendan played it. Contributed to a decline, gobbed off and essentially was waiting around to be sacked.

 

The issue is, the problems that precede Enzo don't miraculously disappear over night in regards to finances. However, those who we believe to have had a major hand in this are still sat at their desks and it's fascinating to see he's perhaps the closest we've seen to openly declare we need new directors such as a new DOF. 

 

He's unlikely to win this battle, but maybe he casts enough light that it's the beginning of the end for some.

 

That I respect him for. It's the unwavering ideology he had that I don't think suits this situation and has left me incredibly annoyed with him. It'll only get worse when we're losing more matches. Maybe I'm irrational but pragmatism is going to be needed without the budget required to match his specific principles. I'm possibly demanding something from a manager that is impossible to get completely spot on.

 

Plenty to like about Enzo. The football is good, he's cut from a different cloth to most which is refreshing but I'd still shake hands and see him off to pastures new with plenty of goodwill all around.

'I'm possibly demanding something from a manager that is impossible to get completely spot on.'

 

You might not be generally, but in the context of a manager we could attract, probably!

 

'Plenty to like about Enzo. The football is good, he's cut from a different cloth to most which is refreshing but I'd still shake hands and see him off to pastures new with plenty of goodwill all around'

 

You say there is plenty to like about the man, you like football style and you like his personal qualities.... you should be fighting to keep this guy tooth and nail, if you think about it! 😄