Caglar Soyuncu emerges as new cult hero at Leicester City

[Ashley]

Had a friend say this to me and it made me think.

 

He said he thinks weve gone a 4-3-1-2 and two CDM to protect Cags and give him confidence? I argued that Brendan has said on multiple occasions he likes the 4312? 

 

Either way hes been ****ing excellent so far long may it continue. 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Had a friend say this to me and it made me think.

 

He said he thinks weve gone a 4-3-1-2 and two CDM to protect Cags and give him confidence? I argued that Brendan has said on multiple occasions he likes the 4312? 

 

Either way hes been ****ing excellent so far long may it continue. 

 

Not true against Bournemouth, above is the average pitch position for all players in the team. It's basically perfect (Maddison usually supports Vardy more often than Tielemans), and as you can see there is only one CDM which Ndidi at 25.

 

 

Against Wolves you can see our average pitch position looked like this, with Hamza (20) much closer to Ndidi (25). But even in this case, I would not call this a 4231 but a 433 with a different outlook as in a 4231 the two CDM's would be alongside one another like our CBs and they are not. In a true 4231 the two CDMs would on average be more central on the pitch as they act as a double pivot.

 

Under Puel's system we would see 24 (Mendy) and 25 next to one another on a map like this. I wished I could find a positional map of us under Puel, but WhoScored don't go back to that season, so instead I will take one from a team that do play 4231 this season - Borussia Dortmund:

 

 

They play two midfielders as pivots in Thomas Delaney (6) and Julian Weigl (33). Notice how much closer and more central those two are to each others, as well as high up their full backs are. All that said, they still slipped to a surprise 3-1 loss away to newly promoted Union Berlin, so perhaps they should consider a different shape

 

 

Anyway all in all, the systems IMO have not specifically done Cags any favours, he's just risen up to the occasion and is in fact a very good player who just hadn't been given a run in the team. Congrats to our scouting team and DOF for managing to find a suitable replacement for Harry Maguire one year in advance to help him learn English, and then sell Maguire for a world record fee and then have a great replacement ready to go.

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 September 2019 by StriderHiryu

[Carl the Llama]

That Bournemouth map should be behind a NSFW filter.  Filthy.

[Leicester_Loyal]

I was wrong about him. I thought we should have signed a CB and started them alongside Evans, but Caglar has come in and looks at home. Fair play to him and well done to the recruitment team and Brodge.

[StriderHiryu]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

That Bournemouth map should be behind a NSFW filter.  Filthy.

Given how fast paced and frantic the first 30 minutes of that game was, it's really impressive. Rodgers comments a lot that "my team's always have a structure, and that allows them the freedom to attack because the structure protects the team."

 

Given how young many of our players are, you'd have to say he and his staff have done a superb job in coaching the team to that level of discipline. We may or may not get a top 6 position, but any coach that observes a team playing like this will be impressed. The fundamentals are there!

[urban fox]

On 18/08/2019 at 19:45, LC/FC said:

 

 

 

how cool is this guy. Totally audacious and we saw something similar against Bournemouth. If he maintains this standard, and remember he is still basically a kid in footballing terms and so could even get better, we will have one the best cb in the league. I really believe he has the potential to become truly world class. He has a bit of the swagger about him that some of the great Italian defenders of bygone days had.

[Foxxed]

58 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Not true against Bournemouth, above is the average pitch position for all players in the team. It's basically perfect (Maddison usually supports Vardy more often than Tielemans), and as you can see there is only one CDM which Ndidi at 25.

 

 

Against Wolves you can see our average pitch position looked like this, with Hamza (20) much closer to Ndidi (25). But even in this case, I would not call this a 4231 but a 433 with a different outlook as in a 4231 the two CDM's would be alongside one another like our CBs and they are not. In a true 4231 the two CDMs would on average be more central on the pitch as they act as a double pivot.

 

Under Puel's system we would see 24 (Mendy) and 25 next to one another on a map like this. I wished I could find a positional map of us under Puel, but WhoScored don't go back to that season, so instead I will take one from a team that do play 4231 this season - Borussia Dortmund:

 

 

They play two midfielders as pivots in Thomas Delaney (6) and Julian Weigl (33). Notice how much closer and more central those two are to each others, as well as high up their full backs are. All that said, they still slipped to a surprise 3-1 loss away to newly promoted Union Berlin, so perhaps they should consider a different shape

 

 

Anyway all in all, the systems IMO have not specifically done Cags any favours, he's just risen up to the occasion and is in fact a very good player who just hadn't been given a run in the team. Congrats to our scouting team and DOF for managing to find a suitable replacement for Harry Maguire one year in advance to help him learn English, and then sell Maguire for a world record fee and then have a great replacement ready to go.

 

 

 

 

Looking back at our previous matches this is the first time we've kept shape. Our formation with once CDM and wingers helped. With two CDMs I'm not sure what our shape is suppose to be. Hamza seemed to be hanging around Fuchs/Chilwell.

[Chester Dontlie]

16 hours ago, Danny Clender said:

Sure it's been said before, but I reckon it's just guilt for doubting him, or at least that's what I'm experiencing. 

I reckon many are like "Weren't me mate that doubted you, I knew all along you were good...you can ask Brendan" which is fuelling his adulation, and rightly so.

 

I thought we needed experience to replace Maguire with as little risk as possible. 

However, Soyuncu is proving me utterly wrong, nothing changes there then.

 

He looks so composed and confident. His iffy positioning is well documented, but that will improve with time. 

Once he gets that right I reckon we'll see him brining the ball out more.

He started the 3rd goal, which is interesting how high he's pressing up the pitch at that time in the game. 

 

 

 

 

Strangely I only have noticed this today when watching the highlights! He made a perfect tackle/interception that started the whole move for the goal, while being very high up the pitch. Top stuff, that's exactly what speed allows him to do. A quick CB is such a great asset to have in a team.

 

The more I see of this guy, the more impressed I am. I for one can say I believed in him from the start, but never in my wildest dreams have I imagined he will become this good so fast and make Maguire's place on the pitch his own. I expected it would take him few to several monts to find his feet in the Premier League and thought BR will start Wes in the league for weeks/months before Caglar gets into the first 11, so it's a big surprise. It's great that Rodgers made a decision to trust him and the lad is rising to the occasion.

Hopefully if/when the inevitable bad game happens and he makes a mistake that'll cost us points (the Bournemouth one fortunately didn't), it won't take him too long to erase it from the memory. Sometimes young players tend to lose confidence after having a mare (like Gray or Chills in his first outings), but Soy seems to have it in spades, so I suppose there's no reason to worry about that in advance.   

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

37 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Looking back at our previous matches this is the first time we've kept shape. Our formation with once CDM and wingers helped. With two CDMs I'm not sure what our shape is suppose to be. Hamza seemed to be hanging around Fuchs/Chilwell.

Well... it's not quite as simple as that, as there are lots of factors to take into account! For example in the image below we have Man City in Orange and Spurs in blue. Spurs look a mess and I am pretty sure Spurs did not want to sit that deep. But was it bad shape, or was it because Man City are a bloody good team who kept them penned into their own half? This game finished 2-2 so they did something right!

 

 

Below is us against Chelsea. Hamza is more central on average in this game and it's notable that Ricardo was much higher up than Fuchs. Soyuncu and Evans also changed which side they played on. But what is the REAL reason for Hamza being in his "weird" position, well take a look at our number 10 James Maddison who actually played on average the furthest up the pitch. Hamza (20) is playing to accommodate Maddison being able to drift around to get closer to Vardy and Hamza and Fuchs have dropped back compared to Tielemans and Ricardo to provide cover, so we don't get a nasty surprise down that flank. His position is such that he maintains a certain distance between him, Maddison, Ndidi and Fuchs. Because Maddison went forward, Hamza has to go forward, and vice versa.

 

 

Now let's look at the next game, against Sheffield United. Once again James Maddison plays on average the fursthest up the pitch, though this time it's Dennis Praet who covers for him as Hamza is playing as the holding midfielder because Wilfred Ndid was injured for this game. Notice that just like against Chelsea, Praet and Fuchs are deeper than Ricardo and Tielemans to give Maddison more license to play forwards, but notice in this match that the distance between Maddison and Praet is much greater than it was against Chelsea. This could lead to a problem as it can mean the team can get disconnected and leave spaces for the opposition to work in. No surprise then that Praet was replaced with Barnes at the hour mark and we changed formation as the Blades piled on the pressure and equalised. Barnes also went onto score before Rodgers switched to 3 at the back to see out the game. All in all a wonderful example of tactical awareness from our gaffer.

 

 

 

So without being the manager, I can only speculate as to the intent but against Wolves, Chelsea and Sheffield United we clearly played in a way to give James Maddison more room to attack and to join Vardy but gave up some drive from central midfield to do so. Therefore I don't think it's a case of keeping shape as such, but more a case of which setup and formation has worked the best. On these forums, most are of the opinion that we were under par against Wolves, had a bad first half but good second half against Chelsea, were decent against Sheffield United and good against Bournemouth. Bournemouth was the first time we changed the system where Maddison though the furthest forward of the midfielders was not as high up as Vardy. So in that case we should always play the system we used against Bournemouth right? But that doesn't tell the whole story either because we likely used that system because it worked very well against them in the same match last season.

 

As fans all we can really do is analyse and speculate as to why we do these things in games. But what I would say is that Leicester City are:
- Unbeaten
- 3rd in the table

- Still in the league cup

- Have scored 6 goals with our main striker scoring 3

- Have successfully integrated a centre back that was inexperienced in the league

 

As a result you'd have to say that Brendan Rodgers is reminding the Premier League why we is so highly thought of. One reason why we have a big chance this season to get top 6 is because he is way more experienced than Lampard and Solkjaer who despite having better players at their disposal are not as experienced in reading and understanding the flow of the game. From a purely tactical point of view the guy is brilliant. I thought he could be a good candidate for the job here, but having seen him in action I have to say I have been extremely impressed.

 

 

Also apologies to anyone that has fallen asleep reading this!

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 September 2019 by StriderHiryu

[Chester Dontlie]

23 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Also apologies to anyone that has fallen asleep reading this!

 

 

 

 

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of 'someone should put Danny Murphy/Jamie Carragher/Gary Neville in a cast so we could have someone like Strider on MOTD telling us something informative for a change!'

Your posts are much appreciated. I never analyzed football tactics this deeply (always went gung-ho in Football Manager with all my teams and thought diamonds are for girls ) so it's actually quite enlightening.    

 

Edited 1 September 2019 by Chester Dontlie

[Guest SO1]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Well... it's not quite as simple as that, as there are lots of factors to take into account! For example in the image below we have Man City in Orange and Spurs in blue. Spurs look a mess and I am pretty sure Spurs did not want to sit that deep. But was it bad shape, or was it because Man City are a bloody good team who kept them penned into their own half? This game finished 2-2 so they did something right!

 

 

Below is us against Chelsea. Hamza is more central on average in this game and it's notable that Ricardo was much higher up than Fuchs. Soyuncu and Evans also changed which side they played on. But what is the REAL reason for Hamza being in his "weird" position, well take a look at our number 10 James Maddison who actually played on average the furthest up the pitch. Hamza (20) is playing to accommodate Maddison being able to drift around to get closer to Vardy and Hamza and Fuchs have dropped back compared to Tielemans and Ricardo to provide cover, so we don't get a nasty surprise down that flank. His position is such that he maintains a certain distance between him, Maddison, Ndidi and Fuchs. Because Maddison went forward, Hamza has to go forward, and vice versa.

 

 

Now let's look at the next game, against Sheffield United. Once again James Maddison plays on average the fursthest up the pitch, though this time it's Dennis Praet who covers for him as Hamza is playing as the holding midfielder because Wilfred Ndid was injured for this game. Notice that just like against Chelsea, Praet and Fuchs are deeper than Ricardo and Tielemans to give Maddison more license to play forwards, but notice in this match that the distance between Maddison and Praet is much greater than it was against Chelsea. This could lead to a problem as it can mean the team can get disconnected and leave spaces for the opposition to work in. No surprise then that Praet was replaced with Barnes at the hour mark and we changed formation as the Blades piled on the pressure and equalised. Barnes also went onto score before Rodgers switched to 3 at the back to see out the game. All in all a wonderful example of tactical awareness from our gaffer.

 

 

 

So without being the manager, I can only speculate as to the intent but against Wolves, Chelsea and Sheffield United we clearly played in a way to give James Maddison more room to attack and to join Vardy but gave up some drive from central midfield to do so. Therefore I don't think it's a case of keeping shape as such, but more a case of which setup and formation has worked the best. On these forums, most are of the opinion that we were under par against Wolves, had a bad first half but good second half against Chelsea, were decent against Sheffield United and good against Bournemouth. Bournemouth was the first time we changed the system where Maddison though the furthest forward of the midfielders was not as high up as Vardy. So in that case we should always play the system we used against Bournemouth right? But that doesn't tell the whole story either because we likely used that system because it worked very well against them in the same match last season.

 

As fans all we can really do is analyse and speculate as to why we do these things in games. But what I would say is that Leicester City are:
- Unbeaten
- 3rd in the table

- Still in the league cup

- Have scored 6 goals with our main striker scoring 3

- Have successfully integrated a centre back that was inexperienced in the league

 

As a result you'd have to say that Brendan Rodgers is reminding the Premier League why we is so highly thought of. One reason why we have a big chance this season to get top 6 is because he is way more experienced than Lampard and Solkjaer who despite having better players at their disposal are not as experienced in reading and understanding the flow of the game. From a purely tactical point of view the guy is brilliant. I thought he could be a good candidate for the job here, but having seen him in action I have to say I have been extremely impressed.

 

 

Also apologies to anyone that has fallen asleep reading this!

 

 

 

 

This is what I crave. Intelligent thought about the game.

You'll never put me to sleep. Well maybe as I pull it apart the second or third time.

[TJB-fox]

4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Not true against Bournemouth, above is the average pitch position for all players in the team. It's basically perfect (Maddison usually supports Vardy more often than Tielemans), and as you can see there is only one CDM which Ndidi at 25.

 

 

Against Wolves you can see our average pitch position looked like this, with Hamza (20) much closer to Ndidi (25). But even in this case, I would not call this a 4231 but a 433 with a different outlook as in a 4231 the two CDM's would be alongside one another like our CBs and they are not. In a true 4231 the two CDMs would on average be more central on the pitch as they act as a double pivot.

 

Under Puel's system we would see 24 (Mendy) and 25 next to one another on a map like this. I wished I could find a positional map of us under Puel, but WhoScored don't go back to that season, so instead I will take one from a team that do play 4231 this season - Borussia Dortmund:

 

 

They play two midfielders as pivots in Thomas Delaney (6) and Julian Weigl (33). Notice how much closer and more central those two are to each others, as well as high up their full backs are. All that said, they still slipped to a surprise 3-1 loss away to newly promoted Union Berlin, so perhaps they should consider a different shape

 

 

Anyway all in all, the systems IMO have not specifically done Cags any favours, he's just risen up to the occasion and is in fact a very good player who just hadn't been given a run in the team. Congrats to our scouting team and DOF for managing to find a suitable replacement for Harry Maguire one year in advance to help him learn English, and then sell Maguire for a world record fee and then have a great replacement ready to go.

 

 

 

 

Mostly agreed, good post. Great to see how high our fullbacks get on a regular basis, on the knowledge that we’ve always got at least one holding midfielder in there as a bit of insurance.  However I do think we’ve been closer to a 4231 in reality than a 433. Hopefully the Bournemouth game showed Brendan that we can play more expansively and more effectively with just one CDM and that we stick with the system used on Saturday. 

[MPH]

hate to say this and i don’t mean yet.. not for a couple of years at least, but he’s got Manchester City written all over him.,,,

[Dan LCFC]

Really am delighted we went with him instead of signing an average centre half for a likely club record fee. The longer this goes on the more this reflects well on us.

 

I still think he's got an error in him somewhere down the line but he's young enough to get better yet. Always had a feeling he'd have potential to become a fan favourite.

 

Imagine if it becomes consensus that he's better than Maguire. Imagine actually selling a defender for a world record fee, signing nobody to replace him and getting better. That would be phenomenal.

[Dan LCFC]

On 31/08/2019 at 19:22, Manwell Pablo said:

Evans is just brilliant. How he spent so long knocking around in mid table sides  is a mystery to me.

It is beyond me that nobody better than us went for him. How were Chelsea & Arsenal not in for him at that price. Another absolute steal.

[KingsX]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

It is beyond me that nobody better than us went for him. How were Chelsea & Arsenal not in for him at that price.

 

Like Chelsea and Arsenal are better than us?  

[Deeg67]

2 hours ago, KingsX said:

 

Like Chelsea and Arsenal are better than us?  

Well, they both were when Evans was available.

 

And Arsenal still is if we’re honest...

Edited 2 September 2019 by Deeg67

[Nicolo Barella]

4 hours ago, MPH said:

hate to say this and i don’t mean yet.. not for a couple of years at least, but he’s got Manchester City written all over him.,,,

Shit. You're absolutely right. Argh, I hate Man City so much but now I can't even hope Pep leaves them

[frany104]

So pleased he’s performing well. All this “he has a mistake in him” is absolute nonsense. Name me a defender who doesn’t make mistakes. He has looked every inch a top PL defender this year and he’s only going to get better.

[Ashley]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Really am delighted we went with him instead of signing an average centre half for a likely club record fee. The longer this goes on the more this reflects well on us.

 

I still think he's got an error in him somewhere down the line but he's young enough to get better yet. Always had a feeling he'd have potential to become a fan favourite.

 

Imagine if it becomes consensus that he's better than Maguire. Imagine actually selling a defender for a world record fee, signing nobody to replace him and getting better. That would be phenomenal.

Yep, that seeing red as such like at Cheltenham where he got sent flying and to an extent you seen it Saturday where he was trying to get back and almost gave away a penalty but other than that hes been bloody brilliant 

[Foxxed]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

It is beyond me that nobody better than us went for him. How were Chelsea & Arsenal not in for him at that price. Another absolute steal.

Arsenal were interested. If you search for Soyuncu and Arsenal you can see the links. But they're a mess of a club and didn't follow through.

[CosbehFox]

Bournemouth fan at work said he was seriously impressed with him 

[norwichfox]

9 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Well... it's not quite as simple as that, as there are lots of factors to take into account! For example in the image below we have Man City in Orange and Spurs in blue. Spurs look a mess and I am pretty sure Spurs did not want to sit that deep. But was it bad shape, or was it because Man City are a bloody good team who kept them penned into their own half? This game finished 2-2 so they did something right!

 

 

Below is us against Chelsea. Hamza is more central on average in this game and it's notable that Ricardo was much higher up than Fuchs. Soyuncu and Evans also changed which side they played on. But what is the REAL reason for Hamza being in his "weird" position, well take a look at our number 10 James Maddison who actually played on average the furthest up the pitch. Hamza (20) is playing to accommodate Maddison being able to drift around to get closer to Vardy and Hamza and Fuchs have dropped back compared to Tielemans and Ricardo to provide cover, so we don't get a nasty surprise down that flank. His position is such that he maintains a certain distance between him, Maddison, Ndidi and Fuchs. Because Maddison went forward, Hamza has to go forward, and vice versa.

 

 

Now let's look at the next game, against Sheffield United. Once again James Maddison plays on average the fursthest up the pitch, though this time it's Dennis Praet who covers for him as Hamza is playing as the holding midfielder because Wilfred Ndid was injured for this game. Notice that just like against Chelsea, Praet and Fuchs are deeper than Ricardo and Tielemans to give Maddison more license to play forwards, but notice in this match that the distance between Maddison and Praet is much greater than it was against Chelsea. This could lead to a problem as it can mean the team can get disconnected and leave spaces for the opposition to work in. No surprise then that Praet was replaced with Barnes at the hour mark and we changed formation as the Blades piled on the pressure and equalised. Barnes also went onto score before Rodgers switched to 3 at the back to see out the game. All in all a wonderful example of tactical awareness from our gaffer.

 

 

 

So without being the manager, I can only speculate as to the intent but against Wolves, Chelsea and Sheffield United we clearly played in a way to give James Maddison more room to attack and to join Vardy but gave up some drive from central midfield to do so. Therefore I don't think it's a case of keeping shape as such, but more a case of which setup and formation has worked the best. On these forums, most are of the opinion that we were under par against Wolves, had a bad first half but good second half against Chelsea, were decent against Sheffield United and good against Bournemouth. Bournemouth was the first time we changed the system where Maddison though the furthest forward of the midfielders was not as high up as Vardy. So in that case we should always play the system we used against Bournemouth right? But that doesn't tell the whole story either because we likely used that system because it worked very well against them in the same match last season.

 

As fans all we can really do is analyse and speculate as to why we do these things in games. But what I would say is that Leicester City are:
- Unbeaten
- 3rd in the table

- Still in the league cup

- Have scored 6 goals with our main striker scoring 3

- Have successfully integrated a centre back that was inexperienced in the league

 

As a result you'd have to say that Brendan Rodgers is reminding the Premier League why we is so highly thought of. One reason why we have a big chance this season to get top 6 is because he is way more experienced than Lampard and Solkjaer who despite having better players at their disposal are not as experienced in reading and understanding the flow of the game. From a purely tactical point of view the guy is brilliant. I thought he could be a good candidate for the job here, but having seen him in action I have to say I have been extremely impressed.

 

 

Also apologies to anyone that has fallen asleep reading this!

 

 

 

 

good work (for the but I managed to read), but I'd much rather watch the game and form my own (probably wrong) opinions. Got about 1/3 of the way down before moving on to next post...which to be fair is further than I usually get on long posts regarding tactics.

[mozartfox]

Just all be thankful that our Board ignored all those on here that suggested we spunk cash on Dunk or Tarkowski.   That would have been a truly massive fuch up and possibly worse than the 2016 Summer Window Car crash.  Benko will be equally as good once he gets his chance.

[Ric Flair]

Shout out to all the Soyuncu fans from day one, we had to take some shit thrown at us left, right and centre last season and all summer. But now we PARTY.