Corona Virus

[Aus Fox]

There are idiots, there are people underestimating the effects of the virus then there are selfish pricks...

Guess which group I’d put this clown into.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-08/hobart-man-infected-with-coronavirus-worked-at-hotel/12037114

[Manwell Pablo]

10 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Pablo is the one buying up all the supplies in Morrison’s. He’s in his garden as we speak digging a survival bunker.

I’ve just got a bit of concern for the elderly and sick mate, but you’ll be alright so it’s all fine, you are a cold cold man. 👀

 

 

29 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Erm, okay? I don't disagree with any of that. And I'm not sure what that has to do with what I was responding to @SheppyFox about, unless I'm missing something obvious? Apologies if so.

He’s essentially saying no drama it only kills the old and sick and you’re saying essentially saying the media won’t put emphasis on that fact because it doesn’t make a good story, unless I’m mistaken.

 

Where as the media should never, ever put emphasis on that fact, as that leads to folk becoming complacent. They’ve not really blown it out of proportion for me.

unless I’ve missed something that is, and the media has told people they need to buy pasta and toilet rolls, as opposed to just reporting on the fact that people have been buying pasta and toilet rolls.

 

Edited 8 March 2020 by Manwell Pablo

[String fellow]

Shouldn't we all be buying masks and marigolds, not toilet paper and pasta?

[StanSP]

14 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

I’ve just got a bit of concern for the elderly and sick mate, but you’ll be alright so it’s all fine, you are a cold cold man. 👀

 

 

He’s essentially saying no drama it only kills the old and sick and you’re saying essentially saying the media won’t put emphasis on that fact because it doesn’t make a good story, unless I’m mistaken.

 

Where as the media should never, ever put emphasis on that fact, as that leads to folk becoming complacent. They’ve not really blown it out of proportion for me.

unless I’ve missed something that is, and the media has told people they need to buy pasta and toilet rolls, as opposed to just reporting on the fact that people have been buying pasta and toilet rolls.

 

Well he didn't mention only killing the old and sick ?! He just said nothing's been mentioned about recovery rates? Which appear high given the amount of cases there are globally and the amount of people that die from them (that's what I get from the numbers anyway). 

I think you may have jumped the gun from the comments made. 

 

I don't think any of us can deny that media like to sensationalise? That's a general point though, not restricted to this outbreak. It's natural as journalists need to make sure stories grab attention. 

[urban.spaceman]

[z-layrex]

This is written by an Italian doctor in the heart of the outbreak in Italy. The next time some ****ing brain cell compares this to a flu or says the media are exaggerating the danger, show them this:

 

«In one of the non-stop e-mails that I receive from my hospital administration on a more than daily basis, there was a paragraph on "how to be responsible on social media", with some recommendations that we all can agree on. After thinking for a long time if and what to write about what's happening here, I felt that silence was not responsible. I will therefore try to convey to lay-people, those who are more distant from our reality, what we are experiencing in Bergamo during these Covid-19 pandemic days. I understand the need not to panic, but when the message of the danger of what is happening is not out, and I still see people ignoring the recommendations and people who gather together complaining that they cannot go to the gym or play soccer tournaments, I shiver. I also understand the economic damage and I am also worried about that. After this epidemic, it will be hard to start over.

Still, beside the fact that we are also devastating our national health system from an economic point of view, I want to point out that the public health damage that is going to invest the country is more important and I find it nothing short of "chilling" that new quarantine areas requested by the Region has not yet been established for the municipalities of Alzano Lombardo and Nembro (I would like to clarify that this is purely personal opinion). I myself looked with some amazement at the reorganization of the entire hospital in the previous week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly "emptied", elective activities interrupted, intensive care unit freed to create as many beds as possible. Containers arriving in front of the emergency room to create diversified routes and avoid infections. All this rapid transformation brought in the hallways of the hospital an atmosphere of surreal silence and emptiness that we did not understand, waiting for a war that had yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would never come with such ferocity (I open a parenthesis: all this was done in the shadows, and without publicity, while several newspapers had the courage to say that private health care was not doing anything).

I still remember my night shift a week ago spent without any rest, waiting for a call from the microbiology department. I was waiting for the results of a swab taken from the first suspect case in our hospital, thinking about what consequences it would have for us and the hospital. If I think about it, my agitation for one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I have seen what is happening. Well, the situation is now nothing short of dramatic. No other words come to mind. The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. One after the other, these unfortunate people come to the emergency room. They have far from the complications of a flu. Let's stop saying it's a bad flu. In my two years working in Bergamo, I have learned that the people here do not come to the emergency room for no reason. They did well this time too. They followed all the recommendations given: a week or ten days at home with a fever without going out to prevent contagion, but now they can't take it anymore. They don't breathe enough, they need oxygen. Drug therapies for this virus are few.

The course mainly depends on our organism. We can only support it when it can't take it anymore. It is mainly hoped that our body will eradicate the virus on its own, let's face it. Antiviral therapies are experimental on this virus and we learn its behavior day after day. Staying at home until the symptoms worsen does not change the prognosis of the disease. Now, however, that need for beds in all its drama has arrived. One after another, the departments that had been emptied are filling up at an impressive rate. The display boards with the names of the sicks, of different colors depending on the department they belong to, are now all red and instead of the surgical procedure, there is the diagnosis, which is always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia. Now, tell me which flu virus causes such a rapid tragedy.

Because that's the difference (now I get a little technical): in classical flu, besides that it infects much less population over several months, cases are complicated less frequently: only when the virus has destroyed the protective barriers of our airways and as such it allows bacteria (which normally resident in the upper airways) to invade the bronchi and lungs, causing a more serious disease. Covid 19 causes a banal flu in many young people, but in many elderly people (and not only) a real SARS because it invades the alveoli of the lungs directly, and it infects them making them unable to perform their function. The resulting respiratory failure is often serious and after a few days of hospitalization, the simple oxygen that can be administered in a ward may not be enough. Sorry, but to me, as a doctor, it's not reassuring that the most serious are mainly elderly people with other pathologies. The elderly population is the most represented in our country and it is difficult to find someone who, above 65 years of age, does not take at least a pill for high blood pressure or diabetes.

I can also assure you that when you see young people who end up intubated in the ICU, pronated or worse, in ECMO (a machine for the worst cases, which extracts the blood, re-oxygenates it and returns it to the body, waiting for the lungs to hopefully heal), all this confidence for your young age goes away. And while there are still people on social media who boast of not being afraid by ignoring the recommendations, protesting that their normal lifestyle habits have "temporarily" halted, the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

The cases multiply, up to a rate of 15-20 hospitalizations a day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the emergency room is collapsing. Emergency provisions are issued: help is needed in the emergency room. A quick meeting to learn how the to use to emergency room EHR and a few minutes later I'm already downstairs, next to the warriors on the war front. The screen of the PC with the chief complaint is always the same: fever and respiratory difficulty, fever and cough, respiratory insufficiency etc ... Exams, radiology always with the same sentence: bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All needs to be hospitalized. Some already needs to be intubated, and goes to the ICU. For others, however, it is late. ICU is full, and when ICUs are full, more are created. Each ventilator is like gold: those in the operating rooms that have now suspended their non-urgent activity are used and the OR become a an ICU that did not exist before. I found it amazing, or at least I can speak for Humanitas Gavazzeni (where I work), how it was possible to put in place in such a short time a deployment and a reorganization of resources so finely designed to prepare for a disaster of this magnitude. And every reorganization of beds, wards, staff, work shifts and tasks is constantly reviewed day after day to try to give everything and even more. Those wards that previously looked like ghosts are now saturated, ready to try to give their best for the sick, but exhausted. The staff is exhausted. I saw fatigue on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already grueling workloads they had. I have seen people still stop beyond the times they used to stop already, for overtime that was now habitual. I saw solidarity from all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask "what can I do for you now?" or "leave that admission to me, i will take care of it." Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we are unable to save everyone and the vital signs of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny. There are no more shifts, schedules.

Social life is suspended for us. I have been separated for a few months, and I assure you that I have always done my best to constantly see my son even on the day after a night shift, without sleeping and postponing sleep until when I am without him, but for almost 2 weeks I have voluntarily not seen neither my son nor my family members for fear of infecting them and in turn infecting an elderly grandmother or relatives with other health problems. I'm happy with some photos of my son that I look at between tears and a few video calls. So you should be patient too, you can't go to the theater, museums or gym. Try to have mercy on that myriad of older people you could exterminate. It is not your fault, I know, but of those who put it in your head that you are exaggerating and even this testimony may seem just an exaggeration for those who are far from the epidemic, but please, listen to us, try to leave the house only to indispensable things. Do not go en masse to make stocks in supermarkets: it is the worst thing because you concentrate and the risk of contacts with infected people who do not know they are infected. You can go there without a rush. Maybe if you have a normal mask (even those that are used to do certain manual work), put it on. Don't look for ffp2 or ffp3. Those should serve us and we are beginning to struggle to find them. By now we have had to optimize their use only in certain circumstances, as the WHO recently recommended in view of their almost ubiquitous running low. Oh yes, thanks to the shortage of certain protection devices, many colleagues and I are certainly exposed despite all the other means of protection we have. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols. Some infected colleagues also have infected relatives and some of their family members are already struggling between life and death. We are where your fears could make you stay away. Try to make sure you stay away.

Tell your family members who are elderly or with other illnesses to stay indoors. Bring him the groceries please. We have no alternative. It's our job. Indeed what I do these days is not really the job I'm used to, but I do it anyway and I will like it as long as it responds to the same principles: try to make some sick people feel better and heal, or even just alleviate the suffering and the pain to those who unfortunately cannot heal. I don't spend a lot of words about the people who define us heroes these days and who until yesterday were ready to insult and report us. Both will return to insult and report as soon as everything is over. People forget everything quickly. And we're not even heroes these days. It's our job. We risked something bad every day before: when we put our hands in a belly full of someone's blood we don't even know if they have HIV or hepatitis C; when we do it even though we know they have HIV or hepatitis C; when we stick ourselves during an operation on a patient with HIV and take the drugs that make us vomit all day long for a month. When we read with anguish the results of the blood tests after an accidental needlestick, hoping not to be infected. We simply earn our living with something that gives us emotions. It doesn't matter if they are beautiful or ugly, we just take them home. In the end we only try to make ourselves useful for everyone. Now try to do it too, though: with our actions we influence the life and death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share and share the message. We need to spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy.»

[MPH]

5 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

166 dead in 24 hours in Italy bringing the death rate there to 5%.

 

Either the Italians have got something horrifically wrong or this is far more dangerous than we collectively assumed.  The fact this can happen in one of the worlds richest countries is a cause of deep deep concern.  It would also suggest the Chinese and Iranians have hugely downplayed their own mortality rates.

 

If the Chief Medical Officer and the Government are keen to stay ahead of this I think it's a fair bet we'll start seeing major changes this week.

 

i think that’s a given.

 

China can’t honestly expect us to believe  that their infection rate has pretty much ground to a halt after such astronomical growth rates..

[brucey]

9 minutes ago, MPH said:

China can’t honestly expect us to believe  that their infection rate has pretty much ground to a halt after such astronomical growth rates..

It has actually. 
There were some WHO investigators who were sceptical as well but after paying a visit managed to corroborate from multiple sources that the decrease was genuine. (talking anonymously to frontline staff, personally observing a massive decrease in people turning up to fever clinics, and lots of empty beds in hospitals)

[fuchsntf]

On 08/03/2020 at 00:09, Trav Le Bleu said:

Tbh, what's devastating is living in a council estate with no hope of ever travelling beyond Skeggy and not being able to afford to stockpile for a few weeks as you've got a zero hours contract and you've been told to self-isolate for two weeks.

Yup..I remember  instead of Skeggy,we once went Overseas to Mablethorpe.And self-isolated behind wind-breaks

[Manwell Pablo]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

Well he didn't mention only killing the old and sick ?! He just said nothing's been mentioned about recovery rates? Which appear high given the amount of cases there are globally and the amount of people that die from them (that's what I get from the numbers anyway). 

I think you may have jumped the gun from the comments made. 

 

I don't think any of us can deny that media like to sensationalise? That's a general point though, not restricted to this outbreak. It's natural as journalists need to make sure stories grab attention. 

He’s saying the high level of recovery is something that should be reported, presumably to show we should not be worried. Otherwise what’s his fcking point?
 

what benefit is that to anyone. We all know, or anyone who’s not been living under a rock at least, that the mortality rate is not high.

 

The clear implication of making statements like that, And by others in this thread, is the most vulnerable aren’t worth consideration. “99% of us will be fine”  is not an argument when that 1% is ten of thousands of people at the very very least. I’ve got numerous older relatives who would struggle to fight Covid-19 off and I’d rather not see them try too.

 

And your saying the media are blowing this up to be more than it is, I don’t actually think the media has said anything, outside of red tops which surely no one with a iq above 80 reads anymore, to exaggerate the impact of  this.

 

There are 16 million people under lock down in Italy ffs. They were we we are now what?  Three weeks ago? 
 

The panic buying is stupid but the media coverage has been spot on for me, especially the bbc.

 

 

 

Edited 9 March 2020 by Manwell Pablo

[MPH]

12 minutes ago, brucey said:

It has actually. 
There were some WHO investigators who were sceptical as well but after paying a visit managed to corroborate from multiple sources that the decrease was genuine. (talking anonymously to frontline staff, personally observing a massive decrease in people turning up to fever clinics, and lots of empty beds in hospitals)

 

 

i’m not buying it, brucey.

 

 

The province that it originated from has apparently not had any new cases in two days yet it’s growing rapidly around the world?

 

 

Many people in the hubei province talked about a huge cover up at the beginning of the outbreak by the chinese government so what makes you think they are being truthful now?

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

i’m not buying it, brucey.

 

 

The province that it originated from has apparently not had any new cases in two days yet it’s growing rapidly around the world?

 

 

Many people in the hubei province talked about a huge cover up at the beginning of the outbreak by the chinese government so what makes you think they are being truthful now?

Fair enough, they're fibbing - wouldn't be the first time. The question is then...why, and why now?

 

They don't need such a lie to effect control over their own people, they're pretty brutally efficient at that anyway. They don't need such a lie to tell the international community right now - there's no matter of "saving face" and international reputation having to go on here when the problem is rapidly becoming international anyway.

 

Lies from such regimes usually come with some pragmatic reason for doing so - I don't see one here.

[simFox]

I've read multiple accounts of what's going on in Italy now. So the next bellend who comes in with "it's just flu" needs to FRO.

[Aus Fox]

[Stephen Hughes]

The part that I don’t understand is that China has the smallest number of new cases after such a dramatic rise.

 

Either they are covering something up or it isn’t as contagious as first thought. 
 

I see posts on here, some concerned and some not so much and it really depends where you source your information and your thought on the media I guess.

 

Personally my gut feeling is that I don’t think it will effect 60% of the UK population but will still have a large impact on society.

[Jon the Hat]

6 hours ago, brucey said:

It has actually. 
There were some WHO investigators who were sceptical as well but after paying a visit managed to corroborate from multiple sources that the decrease was genuine. (talking anonymously to frontline staff, personally observing a massive decrease in people turning up to fever clinics, and lots of empty beds in hospitals)

China have a population who do what they are told by authorities.  Italy don’t.

[Innovindil]

So the Chinese were literally roaming the streets throwing suspected infected people into little boxes, keeping the majority of the people near the breakout trapped in their own homes and people are somehow surprised new cases are dropping? 

 

... Wtf? 

 

If there's one country on the planet with enough of a no ****s given attitude to dealing with a problem, it's the Chinese surely. 

[reynard]

It will be interesting to see where the Government goes today.

There was a 6.4% increase in deaths declared  worldwide yesterday. If that continues at the same level the total deaths will be close to 6000 by the end of Sunday.

 

The Indian Wells major tennis tournament in the US has been cancelled.

The claimed falls in infection in China has only been achieved by draconian measures.

Hard to predict but surely time is now to consider the issue of public gatherings. Really for eg can see no reason for the international football friendlies to go ahead. They are not needed.

 

Edited 9 March 2020 by reynard

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, reynard said:

It will be interesting to see where the Government goes today.

There was a 6.4% increase in deaths declared  worldwide yesterday. If that continues at the same level the total deaths will be close to 6000 by the end of Sunday.

 

The Indian Wells major tennis tournament in the US has been cancelled.

The claimed falls in infection in China has only been achieved by draconian measures.

Hard to predict but surely time is now to consider the issue of public gatherings. Really for eg can see no reason for the international football friendlies to go ahead. They are not needed.

 

I think we'll start seeing events cancelled here, and possibly all European matches played behind closed doors. 

[Voll Blau]

20 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think we'll start seeing events cancelled here, and possibly all European matches played behind closed doors. 

Looks like all German matches are behind closed doors this weekend. Bit of a pisser as I'm meant to be going to three games there.

[TheUltimateWinner]

Was listening to an italian doctor on 5L this morning and he was on about the biggest issue in Italy was the misinformation on how it only effects old people. He was saying ICU wards were containing patients in their 30s, 40s and 50s. 

 

I wish there were more stats on the amount of hospitalised younger people, because I think that will be the biggest problem once our health service is at capacity. Where do the fit and healthy people go when they get complications? 

 

 

Edited 9 March 2020 by TheUltimateWinner

[yorkie1999]

47 minutes ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Was listening to an italian doctor on 5L this morning and he was on about the biggest issue in Italy was the misinformation on how it only effects old people. He was saying ICU wards were containing patients in their 30s, 40s and 50s. 

 

I wish there were more stats on the amount of hospitalised younger people, because I think that will be the biggest problem once our health service is at capacity. Where do the fit and healthy people go when they get complications? 

 

 

It's not only in Italy, Listening to some of the young people that i know you'd think they're immune to it. Seems a bit of an I'm alright pull the ladder up attitude.

[MC Prussian]

12 hours ago, z-layrex said:

This is written by an Italian doctor in the heart of the outbreak in Italy. The next time some ****ing brain cell compares this to a flu or says the media are exaggerating the danger, show them this:

Italy isn't the rest of the world. So, one shouldn't deduct from their situation and conclude that it is similarly bad or threatening in other places.

 

As much as I can sympathize with this doctor, he's arguing from a personal point of view. The Italian Health Care system is one of the best and one of the worst:

https://www.thelocal.it/20190322/what-can-italy-teach-the-rest-of-the-world-about-health

It's not just the virus itself, it's infrastructure and personnel (availability) that determine how quickly and how efficiently you can cope with the issue.

When I read that Italian hospital staff are contracting the virus, then infecting others then I wonder how well-equipped and how serious about quarantine and safety protocol they truly are, it reeks of negligence (but that is just my view looking in from the outside).

 

So, as much as concern is valid for the case of Italy, it remains to be seen how chaotic or overwhelming the situation will be in the remaining European countries.

Based on recent reports, already half of the previously infected global population is recovering.

Edited 9 March 2020 by MC Prussian

[Nod.E]

I think we just need an anthem to calm people down and to stop the panic. I've taken it upon myself to write it.

 

To the tune of Come on Eileen 

 

ORIGINAL LYRICS

Now I must say more than ever
(Come on, Eileen)
Too ra loo ra too ra loo rye aye
And we can sing just like our fathers

Come on, Eileen, oh I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
You in that dress, my thoughts I confess
Verge on dirty
Ah, come on, Eileen

 

 

ANTHEM LYRICS

Now we will pay more than ever
For Covid 19
Loo roll, loo roll, loo roll's gone
And we can sing goodbye to our fathers

Covid 19, oh I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
It's on your dress, my thoughts I confess
Hands are dirty
COVIIIIIID 19

[Aus Fox]

2 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I think we just need an anthem to calm people down and to stop the panic. I've taken it upon myself to write it.

 

To the tune of Come on Eileen 

 

ORIGINAL LYRICS

Now I must say more than ever
(Come on, Eileen)
Too ra loo ra too ra loo rye aye
And we can sing just like our fathers

Come on, Eileen, oh I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
You in that dress, my thoughts I confess
Verge on dirty
Ah, come on, Eileen

 

 

ANTHEM LYRICS

Now we will pay more than ever
For Covid 19
Loo roll, loo roll, loo roll's gone
And we can sing goodbye to our fathers

Covid 19, oh I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
It's on your dress, my thoughts I confess
Hands are dirty
COVIIIIIID 19

I’d just prefer to use The Police, Don’t stand so close to me.